Episode #29 Building a Life in Music: An Insightful Conversation with Singer, Teacher, and Entrepreneur Danielle Tucker
Welcome to Living A Vocal Life: A Podcast For Singers!
Welcome to the Living A Vocal Life Podcast, where I interview singers who have succeeded in creating a life in music. You’ll hear from vocalists of all genres, in different stages of their careers, including singers who’ve been on the Billboard charts and those who are teaching the next generation. What do they have in common? They're all performers with amazing stories to tell and experiences to share.
In our conversations, you’ll learn what inspired them to become a singer, the kinds of challenges they’ve encountered, and how they've overcome them. I'll also share what I've learned on my own journey as a singer and educator — practical tools and insights that will help you to live your best, most authentic vocal life.
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In this episode of Living A Vocal Life, I dive deep into the remarkable musical journey of Danielle Tucker.
Danielle's passion for performance began when she auditioned and won a spot on Ed McMahon's Star Search in the early 90s. She didn't win, but what she learned from the singer she competed against ignited her desire to become a professional singer. Her journey from an inexperienced novice to a powerhouse vocalist is an inspiring tale of perseverance and personal growth. As Danielle opens up about her years spent traveling and learning from different band experiences, she reminds us of the importance of embracing vulnerability while learning how to stand up for yourself in the face of adversity.
You'll hear some behind-the-scenes stories from Danielle's adventures, from her early days in a touring Top 40 band to her thriving show band, the Mighty Untouchables. We also discuss the importance of teaching singers how to thrive, sharing valuable lessons about the challenges of balancing life as a musician, mother, and businesswoman.
I first heard about Danielle through the Unstoppable Singer Summit — a 3-day virtual event featuring over 30 top industry experts. Vocalists learn how to improve their craft, grow their fan base, and what it takes to make a living as a musician.
In her private studio, Danielle provides actionable advice for aspiring singers on musicianship skills, embracing uniqueness, and pursuing authenticity—offering listeners vital insights for their careers and creative journeys.
Danielle's commitment to her personal success and her dedication to developing others' talents is truly inspiring.
Danielle looks at the camera with a big smile. She has stage lights behind her and a gorgeous violet-colored, sparkly, tight-fitting dress on. She’s wearing gold bangle earrings.
“My business is very important to me, and I wanna be successful and everything, but I just know that that’s just a thing, and I’m not overly concerned about it. But, the work I’m putting out into the world, helping other singers, that’s part of the journey. I get to tap into other people’s lives and experience what they’re doing. And that means more to me than anything that I have going on. And so that’s what it’s about for me, for sure.
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Links:
You can find Danielle on Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube.
Danielle’s website is HERE.
The Mighty Untouchables website is HERE.
And the Unstoppable Singers Summit is HERE.
The recordings from today’s episode are: What A Fool Believes (Cover version by The Mighty Untouchables), I Feel For You (cover version by The Mighty Untouchables), Every Woman, and Fallin’ Up. (used with permission.)
Free online course for singers mentioned in the episode: Becoming A Singer: Setting The Stage To Live A Vocal Life
Theme music for the Podcast was composed by John Smith. He helps me edit all the podcast episodes too. (Thanks, honey!)
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Valerie: Hi, I'm Valerie Day, a singer, educator, and creative explorer. You might know me from my work with the Grammy-nominated band Nu Shooz. Welcome to Living A Vocal Life, where I interview singers who have succeeded in creating a life in music. You'll hear from vocalists of all genres, in different stages of their careers, including singers who've been on the Billboard charts and those who are teaching the next generation. What do they have in common? They're all performers with amazing stories to tell and experiences to share.
In our conversations, you'll learn what inspired them to become a singer, the kinds of challenges they've encountered, and how they've overcome them. I'll also share what I've learned on my own journey as a singer and educator, practical tools and insights that will help you to live your best, most authentic vocal life.
In this episode of Living A Vocal Life, we dive deep into the remarkable musical journey of Danielle Tucker. Daniel's passion for performance began when she auditioned and won a spot on Ed McMahon's Star Search in the early nineties.
She didn't win, but what she learned from the singer she competed against ignited her desire to become a professional singer. Her journey from an inexperienced novice to a powerhouse vocalist is an inspiring tale of perseverance and personal growth. As Danielle opens up about her years spent traveling and learning from different band experiences, she reminds us of the importance of embracing vulnerability while learning how to stand up for yourself in the face of adversity.
You'll hear some behind-the-scenes stories from Daniel's adventures from her early days in a touring top 40 band to her thriving show band, the Mighty Untouchables. We also discuss the importance of teaching singers how to thrive, sharing valuable lessons about the challenges of balancing life as a musician, mother, and businesswoman.
I first heard about Danielle through the Unstoppable Singer Summit, a three-day virtual event featuring over 30 top industry experts. In the summit, vocalists learn how to improve their craft, grow their fan base, and make a living as a musician.
In the summit and her private studio, Danielle provides actionable advice for aspiring singers on musicianship skills, embracing uniqueness, and pursuing authenticity, offering students vital insights for their careers and creative journeys. Danielle's commitment to her personal success and her dedication to developing others' talents is truly inspiring.
Hi Danielle. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
Danielle: Hi, Valerie. I'm so happy to be here with you.
Valerie: I always begin by asking singers what their first memory of singing is. Do you remember how old you were and where you were?
First Memory of Singing
Danielle: So my first memory really would be with my older brother, him wearing his Michael Jackson leather vest and, uh, studded glove, and then me alongside him just singing on the, uh, fireplace, you know, in front of friends and family.
We really enjoyed doing that, and I think that kind of sparked an interest in music for me and, and then, uh, but I really think music really became a thing for me in the church. I, I started singing in the church..
Valerie: Well, you have a fireplace in the background here that is just like the fireplace that I grew up with, and I spent a lot of time on the hearth doing shows for my family too. It's a brick fireplace, so you can actually stand on it for people who can't see. And that was kind of how, how we, how we started go-go dancing actually on that fire hearth too.
So where did you grow up?
Danielle: Well, I was originally born in, Arlington, Texas. We lived there until I was about seven or eight years old. My dad was, a consultant, and so we moved around quite a lot. So we lived in several cities in Texas, and then we moved on to Pittsburgh for a few years and then onto New Jersey for a few years.
But then we all came back here to San Diego, California, when my parents divorced. I was, I think I was around 13 years old, and I've been here ever since. So decades later. I'm really a San Diegan at heart.
Ed MacMahon's Star Search
Valerie: So I read that your singing career began when you were a competitor on a television show called Ed McMahon's Star Search. It was one of, if not the first, of the TV talent shows, kind of like The Voice, but more of a variety show for those who aren't familiar.
So our band Nu Shooz auditioned for star search in, I think it was 1983, and it was a total, total disaster.
Danielle: Oh, no!
Valerie: Our keyboard player's double synth stand, one of the legs kept sinking; it wasn't staying up. And so he was holding up his keyboard with one hand and playing with the other.
And I just remember it feeling really, really bad. And we didn't get an on the show. But you did.
So, what, what year were you on the show, and how did that experience launch your singing career?
Danielle: Wow. Yeah, it was actually 1992 when I had auditioned for the show, but they didn't contact me back until 93. And I was just about to age out of the, uh, category that I was in as a teenager. And, so my parents took me out to Universal in Orlando, Florida. And that was really, I think, my first experience as a singer where my parents thought, wow, she could probably make something of this, you know, she could actually do something with this. Because up until then, I was singing in church, I was taking some voice lessons. I had been doing the pageant scene and some local talent shows singing at, in the talent shows at school and everything, and..
And my parents were very busy people, and they just, I just don't think they were paying attention that much, although they always supported everything I did. But they kind of treated it like a fluke that I'd gotten onto the show, you know?
So we went, and it was an amazing experience.
It was so fun. Above all, it really filled me with a lot of confidence. And it filled my parents with a lot of confidence too, that I really could head in this direction. I only went through one round of the show, and my competitor, Chaz Lamar Shepherd, he actually went on to win the entire finale.
And he was, he was incredible. He was so great. And it was really great for me to witness that and to see him because he was really already a professional by then. And so I had that to compare myself to, to say like, okay, this is about how much I need to start stepping up my game, you know, if I really wanna pursue this.
So, I came home, and my parents were fired up. I was fired up, and we just started looking for like any and all opportunities I could take as a singer. And momentum just really grew for me over the years beyond that.
Valerie: Well, you were in your first band at 18 years of age, right?
Danielle: Yea, that's right.
Valerie: I read that you were playing resorts during the day and gigging at different clubs at night, and you were in a different city for almost every night for a year. Tell me about that experience and why you ended up jumping off that tour.
Full-time Touring At Age Eighteen
Danielle: Yeah. Oh yeah. That's a fun story. Well, I was living here in San Diego. I had just graduated high school, and I was gonna go to community college. I, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to be a singer. I just didn't know that you could make a living being a singer if you didn't have a record deal, um, if you weren't on MTV.
So I was not aware that there was a whole world where there were working musicians who weren't necessarily on MTV, but, you know, we're making a great living doing that.
And so I had these great mentors who were the music directors at this pretty large church that I was going to. The program there at the church was a big deal.
I was a little aimless at the time, and they had suggested, well, why don't you try to get into a band and see how that works out so you can at least be working as a singer while you're going to school.
So I was using this service that you would call in every day, and there would be a voice recording of all of the gig opportunities that were available for people looking for singers for their bands or recording projects or things like that. And so I'd call in every day, and I would just furiously write down all the details cuz you couldn't stop the recording. So I would. I was writing down phone numbers, names, everything that I could.
And then I'd have to hang up and call back in again. And just, so I, I got a couple of opportunities from that. But then, this one came around; they were looking for a singer on the East Coast. But it was full-time. And I thought, when I heard it, I was like, I've gotta do this. I've gotta get this gig.
And so I called the band leader; I had told him what very little experience I had had at this, but I sent him my cassette tape demo.
Valerie: Cuz this was pre-internet. This was pre-everything.
Danielle: Yes.
In fact, I think I had back in the day too, I was wrapping my cassette tape demos in tissue paper like they were a gift that I was giving out, right?
Valerie: You were entrepreneurial from the start. You were a marketing wiz at 18.
Danielle: I was branding before branding was a thing.
Valerie: Right?
Danielle: Yes. Yeah. So I sent him my tape. I sent him my black and white eight by ten headshot, and, um, I think he was just having trouble finding singers who would take this gig. And so they hired me sight unseen, and I packed up my little bags and headed out to the east coast.
I think I landed in Ocean City, Maryland, for my first gig with them. And they were all Puerto Rican. And so I was the only white girl in the whole group. And they had a very strong family dynamic and had all been together for a long time. So they were; they had fiery personalities, and fighting and physical fighting was a thing for them, like within the group.
So, of course, I'm like 18 years old, completely shocked, and have no idea what's going on. And I really had not performed with a band much up until then. I did not have hardly any experience at all. I had worked in the church band, and maybe done, I was only 18, so I wasn't even really doing bar gigs or anything yet.
So I didn't know what it was like to sing in front of a monitor or to be on a loud stage, you know, with tons of instrumentation. So my first night there, all I was expected to do was get up and sing one song, which was Gloria Gaynor I Will Survive, of course.
And so they right, they call me up on stage, and I just remember feeling so overwhelmed by the volume of the stage and then starting to open my mouth and sing and barely being able to hear myself at all.
I just started singing and just hung on for dear life. I think I was having an out-of-body experience. I was so scared. And, I'm sure that the moment I was done, they were deeply regretting their decision to have brought me all the way out there.
Valerie: Wow. That is just baptism by fire, actually. That is an amazing experience all the way around.
It can be so overwhelming to step on stage when you're not prepared for the onslaught of sound and sights and the audience looking at you.
And also, I've had the experience of not if I'm not really sure of my place in the relationship aspect of the band. Like if I don't know for sure that the people behind me really have my back or, you know, what, what the deal is, it makes it so much harder. When you absolutely know you're on the same team, it's different. But you learned, obviously, very quickly, and you stayed with that band for a whole year.
Danielle: Yeah, I did. I was so naive at the time. I really didn't know that I had a choice, and I think I was trying to prove myself. I was too scared to go home because I had made this very irrational decision to go out there against many people's advice. And I just thought, I gotta prove myself, you know, that I can do this. And knowing I was already a people pleaser at that age, and I wanted to win these guys over. I wanted to impress them. I wanted to do well.
And so, the day after, you know, my first performance with them, we had a, come to Jesus meeting and, and they just said, yeah, well, you're super, super green, well beyond what we had thought. So you're gonna have to work really, really hard to get up to speed. And so I had my little boombox tape recorder, my spiral-bound notebook. And every single day, I stayed in my hotel room, just memorizing lyrics, working on songs, trying to pull together professional-looking attire.
And, every night, I had this incredible opportunity where we worked every night in a club and every afternoon at a resort, and we'd stay there for a residency, and then we'd move on to the next city in the middle of the night after our last club gig. And we did this circuit from Ocean City, Maryland, all the way down to Daytona Beach, Florida.
And we would just do this circuit up and down the East Coast, the entire year. And I was so just depressed and stressed the whole time, hardly making a dime doing all of this. I was terribly homesick, and these guys were really, really hard on me, but it was the biggest growing experience I had as a singer.
And I do not think I would be where I am today had I not had that gruesome experience. They taught me just about everything I needed to know to kick off my career as a professional, especially on stage.
Valerie: So they mentored you, but not in a kind way.
Danielle: No.
Valerie: It was a crash course in how to survive as a singer.
So you left after a year, which is, must have been when your contract was up or something?
Danielle: Well, actually, this was a funny, it's not funny, but we'd had a tough night on stage, and like I said, the experience was highly stressful for me. I was so young, and I did not understand professional etiquette. I didn't know how music worked as a business then.
And so we'd had a very stressful night on stage, and we'd had a little band meeting called in the band leaders’ hotel room. And like I said, they got very fiery, and it would often lead to physical altercations between them. Never me. I was always pretty safe from that.
But, a stapler ended up being thrown across the room and barely skimmed my head. Like it almost hit me. And I just, I think I had reached my breaking point, and I was just scared out of my wits by all of this happening. And I was living with this sense of dread of like waking up in the morning and having to be with these guys again.
I, I was the only female in, in all of the mix of this too, and I'm just, I was just a kid. And so in the middle of the night, I called my dad, and I said, I have to get outta here. I can't, I can't stay here another night. And so he bought me a plane ticket, and I left in the middle of the night without saying a word to any of them. And I never looked back.
Yeah. I mean, I think it was partially justified with the violence that was ensuing, but..
Valerie: Oh, absolutely!
Danielle: Professionally really screwed them. I'm sure, but..
Valerie: But you were in a trauma situation basically after a year of having that uncertainty, and it was an abusive relationship, and that's not okay. But when you're a people pleaser, which I am, so I get the mentality, you wanna prove yourself, be liked, and not let anybody down. Except it's easy when you're that young, too, to forget like; actually the person that I need to show up for is me.
Danielle: Yeah. To me, they were an authority figure in my life at that point. They were the ones that were calling the shots every day, and I needed to show up and do what I was told to do until my nerves just were shattered. I just couldn't take it anymore. I just was; I couldn't picture myself waking up into that situation again one more day.
So I just, I had to flee.
Valerie: Yeah, good for you for getting out of there. That was a smart move on your part, it sounds like. So you learned a lot, but you also learned how to get out when it was imperative that you take care of yourself first.
Moving To Nashville
Valerie: So then you started doing, if I'm getting the story right, you started doing more country music, and you ended up in Nashville? Is that right?
Danielle: Yeah.
Valerie: How did that happen?
Danielle: Well, I came home, and I again was kind of aimless with what I was gonna do. Uh, The mentors that I was working with at the church that I mentioned before had suggested that I try going to get my music degree. So I went to Azusa Pacific University and was a part of their music program for close to two years. And I, I absolutely loved it and was learning and growing a lot.
But then I got very sick with an autoimmune disease while I was there. And, I was having to travel back and forth from San Diego to Orange County, um, very frequently for treatments and just could not get this illness under control.
And so, I ended up having to take a semester off to do treatments for this. And within time, I ended up getting a job so I could support myself while I was having treatments done and everything. And I just decided not to go back to school. It was a private school, so it was very expensive.
So unfortunately, I did not go back I, I wasn't ready to give up music, though. I was having this experience now where I'm working a corporate office job, you know, knowing that, yeah, this is cool, and I like making money and everything, but I have to have music as a part of my life. I absolutely have to.
So I sat down, and I made a list of everyone that I knew in the music business, everyone that I could think of, even people who were like very loose connections to me. Like, four degrees beyond, if I really even knew them personally. And I thought, okay, well, I'm gonna start at the very top of this list with whoever has the most pull in the business, and I'm just gonna see if I can get in front of these people and get some help, get some help with some direction.
The number one person on my list was a vocal coach that I had seen in the past named Ron Anderson. He lived in Los Angeles. I met him while I was working for an entertainment attorney during my time at Azusa. He was a vocal coach to a lot of big stars and everything.
So, I got an appointment with him, drove out to see him, and he just had a great conversation with me about what is it that you really want? When you close your eyes at night, and you dream about your future, when you visualize your future, what are you really seeing? What are you afraid to say out loud that you really want?
And I think I was afraid to say it out loud. Uh, so I had explained to him, you know what I pictured myself being how I looked on stage, what did I look like in a recording studio? What did the music sound like? What image was I going for? You know, what felt good to me? And, um, at that time, country music had been part of my roots, having grown up in Texas.
And my parents were into country music. And at the time, country was experiencing big boom in the industry. And so he had suggested, well, why don't you, put together a country EP and we'll, we'll find somebody who can shop it for you. So he connected me with a writer and producer in Nashville, and we, uh, went through endless catalogs of music and pulled together a handful of songs. And I went out to Nashville and recorded my first country EP.
I came back to San Diego after that, while he was in Nashville, making the rounds with it. And while I was here, I had pulled together a band to go out and gig, do shows, kind of circulate the music and just try to kind of build some momentum with that. And that was...
Valerie: From your church, right?
Danielle: From my church. Yeah. I asked these guys who had been, lifelong mentors to me, if they would humor me and, and do this country band with me. So, we all put together, a great show and I ended up entering us in The Country Showdown, and it was at a big casino out here in San Diego and we ended up winning the competition.
I won 10,000 bucks in the competition and it just, man, it just set the wheels in motion. And so for the next three, four years, the band was on fire. We had some awesome opportunities opening for some big country acts that came through town.
And while this was all happening, the core members of this group were beginning to talk about putting together a corporate show band, not for country music, but you know, um, more universal contemporary top 40 music, to do the corporate show scene. So I was a part of that core member, and so within that time span, the Mighty Untouchables were born. And it wasn't long after that I had to, uh, lay the country band down for hiatus because the Mighty Untouchables took off and just started working so much it became impossible for me to really book anything long term for the country band.
Valerie: Wow. What an incredible story.
The autoimmune disease that you had, was it completely gone by this time? Do you think that maybe the stress of that first tour that you did with that band, where you were on the road for a year, contributed to that, experience?
Danielle: Yeah, I think that's very likely. I think that me as a person, I tend to manifest my stress in very physical symptoms. You know, I kind of suppress it and it comes out in sickness, so that's been a cycle for me throughout my whole life, unfortunately. So having gone through that and then going straight into another completely foreign situation to me, living on a college campus far away from home and, being in a very sophisticated music program that, you know, I had not experienced that yet.
It was a lot of stress and so I ended up getting mono while I was there, which triggered the autoimmune disease. Yeah. So, having come home, it felt like an, an eternity trying to get that under control. So I did get that under control and I think once I was feeling better, and feeling, you know, like I had some life in me again, that's really what motivated me to make that list.
It was because like, I'm still alive, you know, and I still wanna go for this. So it definitely was a huge motivating factor.
Valerie: I think that's really important for people to hear that there are these seasons in life where you can't show up the way that you want to for whatever reason.
It's like the universe says, okay, time to sit down and you're not, doing what you thought you were gonna do.
I think how, having our bodies be in a place where we are healthy is so important as a singer too, because our body is our instrument.
We need to be in good health to perform at our best. So I'm really glad that you first of all got that under control. And that you, it sounds like you then were surrounded in your next performance situation with people who were a lot more supportive. By the way, the, Mighty Untouchables, you guys are truly one of the most kick-ass cover bands I've ever heard.
Danielle: Thank you, Valerie.
Valerie: And we've, we played a lot of cover music back in the day too so I know how hard it can be to basically be like, Carrie in the Exorcist, your head has to spin around and you have to do different kinds of music, like back to back.
But, I'm wondering, before the pandemic you did about 120 shows per year. You played festivals, weddings, corporate events. But when you first started the band, it was right after the 2008 recession when most people would've said, this is a terrible time to start a band that's gonna play at corporate functions. Everybody's cutting their budgets for things like that. But you guys just went forward.
Danielle: We went for it. You know, these were people I'd known... I'm 44 years old now, and I met them when I was 13 years old. So, we've been just this lifelong family together. So while working in the country band and at church together, these guys already had experience in the corporate music scene.
So they had this vision and wanted to pull this dream project together. They had handpicked each musician and had, a clear vision for what it is that they wanted to do. Uh, the timing was terrible. It was awful.
But thankfully, each member of this band brings such a unique offering. Each member is a completely unique asset in their own. Mark Fulton, our band leader, he's actually nicknamed Hustle Boy. That's what we really call him because this guy has more drive, hustle, energy, commitment than anyone I've ever met in my life. He works tirelessly day and night for the band, and he just hit the ground running with trying to get us gigs.
We also had a manager at the time who was, a spitfire too, and so we were taking any and everything that we could get at the time, always within mind that we were gonna be a high end corporate show band, you know? But we were still doing casino gigs. We were discounting our price, you know, whenever we needed to.
But, we built tremendous momentum with the band. And it got to the point where, you know, we had an overwhelming schedule. It was just, it was more than we could keep up with. And that was the point that we knew, okay, it's time to raise the prices and it's time to start getting really choosy with the types of gigs that we would take.
And so we, we had the opportunity at that point to say, okay, we're only gonna do, corporates from now on, or you know, we also definitely do weddings, and things like that. But, we laid down the clubs, we laid down the casinos, everything that didn't fit or align with the high-end brand image that we were, going for.
And we were scared to do that because this was our full-time gig. None of us had day jobs or anything like this, so we were all relying on this to happen. And it was the best choice we could have made because things just took off. And it sealed the brand, it sealed what the brand was about.
And you know, the, guys are just phenomenal musicians. And so we, we have that Yeah, we've got that going for us.
But, we went in and we made some great promotional videos. Invested everything that we could and we did some, unique arrangements on some cover songs that we put online.
Valerie: Unique arrangements is putting it mildly. That's one of my favorite things about hearing these cover songs is the arrangements are incredible. I just, I kept listening to some of the stuff on YouTube over and over again cuz I was like, oh man, listen to that chord change that they put in there and listen to the vocal arrangement here.
Becoming A Singer Launched!
Valerie: I'll be back with Danielle in a moment, but first, I wanted to thank you for being here. I know you have a lot of choices when it comes to podcasts. I'm grateful that you've chosen to listen to this one. I also wanted to share some big news.
The course for singers I've been working on for the last few years is finally on my website.
Becoming A Singer was created for the aspiring career vocalist, but whether you're taking your first steps on your musical journey, have been singing and performing for a while and need a refresh, or are a curious lifelong learner, the course has something for everyone.
There are six modules, dozens of videos, discovery, worksheets, and more that encompass everything a singer needs to know before stepping onto a stage. Things like mindsets. Skillsets. You're relationships with your instrument or your body, the songs you sing, your bandmates and your audience. These topics, and more have been scripted, videotaped, edited, and lovingly placed in an online home on my website.
My goal in creating the course is to help you step out on stage with confidence and a new sense of purpose ready to share your authentic voice with the world. But there's one more piece of news. I have decided to give the course away for free. I want to make it available to anyone who needs it.
Now you may be thinking what's the catch? Well, there isn't one. If you'd like to read more about the course and my decision to gift it, rather than sell it, just head to LivingAVocalLife.com or look for the links in this episode's show notes. If you love to sing, please take a look. And if you find value in the course, please share it with someone who might find it helpful too.
And now back to Danielle.
Valerie: So, it sounds like you have great musicians who are wonderful people and easy to work with and that the band is structured in a way where everybody has a job. So how is the band structured and who does what?
Danielle: Yeah. So, Mark Fulton, as I mentioned, is our band leader, and Mark is my business partner. So we're partners in owning the band and the business. And so I am our behind the scenes operational person, uh, handling contracts and marketing and the non-sexy things. And so we have Michael Geen, who is our drummer, and he's also our MD of the band.
Valerie: Music director, right?
Danielle: Yes, he runs the show. He works with the musicians. He's the one who wrote all the arrangements and produced the songs. Absolutely brilliant musician.
Valerie: Talented. I love his feel. His playing is so fantastic. Yeah. And how interesting that he also did all the arranging.
Danielle: He's a wonderful producer too. He's just one of those people who, when you go into the studio with him he has that ability to draw out just the best in you when you're in the studio. I think at first I was intimidated by it, but, you know, now that we have so much time together, I just, I trust him wholeheartedly.
And so, he really has a brilliant mind for it. And so it's so much fun.
Valerie: That's so important in a producer that, first of all, that they have a vision for what it should sound like, and second of all, that they can pull that out of the musicians that are there to do the work.
Band Rehearsals
Valerie: So what do rehearsals look like? How quickly do you have to learn these tunes sometimes? And what's the process when you are working on it individually and then when you get together with the band?
Danielle: The band's been together now for 14 years. So when we were first together, we'd rehearse a lot in a rehearsal space and drilled harmonies, the rhythm section separately, vocalists separately, put 'em together, you know, we were doing a lot of that. But because we have been together for so long, it's, it's a well-oiled machine.
So right now we don't often rehearse unless we are putting together a theme show or if we have lot of stuff that we have to learn or if we're doing a new promo video or something. But the way it works for us now is if we have to learn a song or two for a gig, everybody does their homework behind the scenes.
So Mike, our M.D., he and or some other members of the band will write charts for the rhythm section. And he writes out our vocal form. He's got a beautiful way of organizing that and just, you know, showing where harmonies come in and out of, and just, everyone's parts.
And we know as a singing ensemble what parts we're supposed to take. We know which, where we're at in the stack of harmonies. And so we learn it on our own. And the day of the show we come into soundcheck and we run it there, on the spot.
You know, these guys are just, they just are so good.
They're all great readers, so they just get in there, they read it down, and the band chemistry is just so tight that I feel like they can do it in their sleep. So it's very, it's a really efficient process for us. And it's made easy to, you know, have that be a, strong offering for the band that we can quickly learn things if, if we need to.
Valerie: Yeah. Amazing.
Singing Cover Tunes vs. Singing Originals
Valerie: So do you do original music anymore?
Danielle: Not much. I really don't. Uh, it's, something that I really have, a lot of hope, you know, that will kind of flow back into my life. But the current schedule we're on, it just, I haven't been able to allow that time or space. But us as a band, we're always talking about writing more together. But believe it or not, we just haven't made it happen yet.
Valerie: Well, that makes sense. I mean, there's a lot going on when you have a band like that that's working so much. I was just curious because I wondered how you approached singing cover tunes versus singing original material. But at this point, that's not a part of the, of the game.
Danielle: Yeah, but you know what? It's a, that's a great question though, because I think, and I talk to some of my own students about this is that singing covers is actually very advantageous, especially if you really try to adapt the sounds of who you're hearing and really picking up on the very subtle nuances and the things that really stylize a song.
The textures, the layers of things. Because once you have experienced all those different dimensions of your voice and capabilities, you then as an artist have this enormous tool bag to choose from how you want you to sound unique as an artist. And I think that, in the instances where, you know, I have had an opportunity to do some writing, I have a much more clear understanding of who I am as a singer because I have, I've, tried on the hats of many other singers throughout this cover band career.
So I think there, I think there's this kind of myth that singing covers makes you a copycat of some sort, but I really think it unlocks your whole tool bag.
Valerie: Oh, I love that. I absolutely love that. Cuz I think you're right. Maybe in the beginning it's hard to find your own voice because it's like learning vocabulary. You have to learn all these new words and then put them together your own way.
So, when you approach a cover song these days, how much of the original and then how much of you gets in the mix?
Danielle: We really try to cover it as close to the record as we can. You know, we often get the comment that like, I was standing outside the door and I thought we were hearing just an original recording of the song, but I was shocked to see that there was actually a band on stage playing.
So we try to cover it just as closely as we possibly can. Um, that's not always typical of cover bands. But it is fun though when we do go into the studio and do our own arrangement on a cover song. That's really when we take a lot of creative license and, at this stage for me as a singer, I really know what my strengths are and what, where my sweet spots are as a vocalist.
And so that's my big chance, you know, to, to kind of, bring those things out. So I always like to make space for that.
Valerie: Yeah, it makes sense that you would wanna do the music exactly like it it was recorded because those are the recordings that people have embedded in their bodies in their brains, in their memories, and they wanna hear, they want that specific thing so they can get a specific feeling from it, for sure.
But I'm telling you, I love the arrangements that, that you guys do, and I've said it already before, but this is just, uh, it's so fun to listen to.
I think one of the fun things about, doing cover songs is that there is the opportunity to put different clothes on the song, basically. One song, but so many different things you can, you can dress it up in and, uh, I, I just like what you guys do.
Teaching & Coaching
Valerie: So let's talk about teaching and coaching. When did you get into teaching and how much of your life does it take up? And, uh, let's start there.
Danielle: Well, I got interested in it when I was in high school because the vocal coach I worked for kind of took me on as a apprentice, I guess. And so I was helping her with some of the younger vocal ensembles. And so, I started just getting my feet wet with guiding a vocal group or, giving advice.
But I didn't have any, technical know-how at that point. But then when I, went to college and started really studying vocal anatomy, vocal science and theory, and, gaining a much stronger understanding of how the voice works, I then began picking up private students, very irregularly, you know, here and there.
And then of course, I'm going through this illness. The bands are starting all this stuff. Then once life fell into a normal pace, uh, and I had my kids, I really began thinking about the future beyond myself as a performer, because I thought, well, at some point, I may not be able to do this.
You know, with the band it's a pretty grueling four hour show that we do. And, believe me, I'm not anywhere near stopping, but I was thinking about the future and I just thought, I love working with other singers. I absolutely love it.
And I just started picking up private students, building my home studio. And it just grew. It just grew and grew. And my love for coaching has grown over the years. And because I had this very wonderful, blessed, unique experience of being in a very successful business situation as a, as a singer and making, a wonderful living for myself.
I've really have a strong emphasis on helping singers become professionals, those who have the drive and desire to do that. So that's really a strong part of my vocal studio.
Valerie: It's a really wonderful thing that you offer that because it's really needed. Um, when did you realize that singers need coaching and career strategy too? When I, um, was teaching privately there were so many things beyond learning how to sing that singers came in with, that they wanted to talk about and had questions about.
And a lot of it's about career stuff. Even though the internet has a lot of information out there, hearing it from someone who's been there and done it is different. And someone you trust, because you can go on the internet and find out all kinds of things, but are these things, you know, really true? And are they applicable to your situation?
Danielle: Well, initially it was just because of my own experience having, you know, stepped into the fire, like you said, you know, into my first experience. I had no idea what I was doing. My parents were not musicians. They had no idea. And so I just had to jump in and make tons of mistakes and terrible choices and learn so much from that.
But it really was probably during the pandemic. I saw my community of professional singers put in a situation of dire straits at that time. Our entire industry came to a screeching halt. Nobody knew what to do. People were suffering, seriously suffering financially. People were losing their homes, their cars, their minds, you know, it was, uh, these, these were people, you know, that I, I love dearly that it was hard to see them.
And I was in the same situation too. And so that, I think I'd already kind of begun incorporating business guidance in my coaching a little bit before that. But once the pandemic hit, it was, it was on for good. You know, I knew that like this was really something that I had to bring to the table. Because a lot of this is just not something you learn in college and unless you're being mentored or brought up by professional musicians I'm not sure there's any other way to get this kind of information.
The Unstoppable Singer
Valerie: Yeah, so you did a remarkable thing. You brought together 30 top industry experts in the music business, uh, singers for a virtual event called the Pandemic Proof Singer Summit. And it was a three day virtual event for these struggling singers that you were just talking about. Basically covering everything a singer needs to know about creating a sustainable music career.
You since renamed it The Unstoppable Singer, which I love. First of all, how did you put that all together and what was the surprising thing that you learned from doing it?
Danielle: Well, it all started, like you said, during the pandemic, and I had tons of time on my hands. I had begun making tutorial videos at home just for students that could not come and see me in person. And we were learning how to coach online at that time as well.
And I wanted to do some outreach to my music community locally. And so I had started this livestream podcast, which was the pandemic Proof Singer Show. And weekly I was inviting my friends and colleagues on just to interview them and talk with them about the experience they were going through and any value or advice that they could offer the community at large about how they were surviving, how they were getting through lessons they were learning about this.
And I just, I was loving it. I was loving having that ability to connect with the community while we were forced to be separate. And I loved it so much and I just felt like I had so many resources that I was tapping into myself. Like I went from being purely a live performance artist to, okay, well now I'm gonna have to do some session work from home because I have to make money. And I'm gonna have to do coaching online because I have to make money.
And so I was kind of tapping all of my resources, all of the knowledge that I had of the industry, of other channels of income that I could tap into that I hadn't otherwise been leveraging, but knew I was capable of doing. And, I just had developed this network of professionals that I just have known throughout the years, and I thought, I'm not the only one that needs this right now.
So what if we just, what if we just pulled everybody together so that all singers can see everything that's available to them? They can see that setting up a home studio is not impossible. They can see that learning how to livestream, learning how to, you know, engineer sound or a digital audio workstation is not impossible. And just really debunk that understanding that we're just singers.
Valerie: Right.
Danielle: We just show up and sing and make the music.
Valerie: Everybody else does all that other technical stuff. We don't know how to do that.
Danielle: It's not true.
Valerie: And it's actually so important. It's so important to know all that stuff.
Danielle: Yeah.
Valerie: So what did you learn doing this that you're using going forward?
Danielle: Well, I think the biggest eye-opening, thing was that we as singers have to be so industrious and independent and have to be business people. And that means not putting all your eggs in one basket and not trying to justify yourself as purely, I am just a singer. But no, you're a business person. You are a soundman, you're a soundman or woman, you're an audio engineer. You are, you have to wear a lot of different hats in this business. And it's not as hard as you think. And on the same token of not putting all your eggs in one basket, if you really want to make a good, solid, safe, comfortable living in this business, you've got to have multiple streams of income.
So you can have your main thing, like I have my main thing, it's the Mighty Untouchables, but I also do quite a lot of other things that tremendously supplement my income so that if something were to happen, if we hit, have another pandemic hit, if I get fired from the band, if the band falls apart, or who knows, who knows what could possibly happen.
Valerie: Right. Life happens.
Danielle: Yeah. I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna be in big, big trouble. I have developed these other channels that I can just, beef up, or lean more heavily into, but they're there and they're stable. And so I, I think that was the biggest takeaway was just that bigger vision of the business and not seeing myself as so small and so needy, but rather I am, yes, I'm a singer, but I'm also all these other things and I'm very capable of it.
And I don't care who you are, what stage you're at as a singer, you can get there too. And it just takes a, a matter of, allowing yourself to receive the information and just going out and putting the pieces in place.
Valerie: Yeah. One little step at a time.
Danielle: One little step at a time.
Valerie: There is so much.
I feel like you're sort of an entrepreneurial person at heart. I mean, you started making lists and acting on those lists a long time ago.
Danielle: You nailed me. Yes.
Valerie: Yeah, I'm a list maker, so I kind of recognize..
Danielle: Yeah.
Valerie: ...fellow list makers. They help a lot and they kind of give you a, a map of what to do next because it is overwhelming. The good news is we can do it all. The bad news is that we can do it all and get totally overwhelmed. So how do you talk to yourself? How do you talk to the singers that you work with about working with that kind of overwhelm you can get when you're looking at what needs to be done as a singer?
Danielle: Right. Well, thank you Covid for the many lessons that we learned from that time period, uh, because prior to that, I was leading a very unsustainable life. I have two small children, this band with this insane schedule along with any other side projects I had going on in my vocal coaching studio.
It was, it was a mess. You know, I felt so burned out, just really worn down. So when Covid hit, honestly, it was, uh, it was a break for me. It was a little bit of a relief to take a break. And having all of those things stripped away from me really gave me a new perspective on all of it. Fast forward to today.
I'm still very, very busy. I'm still doing a lot of things, but I don't take myself or any one of those things too seriously because I know life can change on a dime and this thing or the other can be gone in an instant. And so I try not to sweat it to my core anymore. Um, but I still am driven and I still, you know, like to work hard.
I've developed some good organizational tactics throughout my career. Um, I use a lot of mainframes to keep myself organized when I'm doing projects, I try to keep a very tight schedule. If I have something in mind, I wanna do, I always make sure that it's on the schedule.
I ask for help. I have a lot of people that are involved in my business. I have one project coordinator who is my right hand person and we have a V.A.. And, I just, I lean into my own strengths and I ask for help in the areas that are not my area of expertise. So it's just, it's a lot of community help.
I get that question a lot. How do you do all of this? And I don't, I'm, it's not just me doing it, And believe me, Valerie, I fall apart plenty of times just with overwhelm and sometimes just have to cry or, you know, fall apart once in a while. It's not often, but after the pandemic, I just, I really try to be much kinder to myself.
Um, my kids are my absolute top priority in life. They're what matters to me the most. And so they get the best of me, and then I put the business stuff second. Um, it's important, but I do, I have that new perspective where it's just, I now know I can live without it.
I can't live without my kids. But the business I can, you know.
Valerie: Right. That's some great advice and also thank you for sharing, that you aren't the perfect everything.
Danielle: No, not at all.
Valerie: You know, because, we all have days, we all have the, the good ones and the bad days.
Um, Oh, I, so I loved what you said about not taking everything so seriously to your core.
Danielle: Right.
Valerie: Because when you're a people pleaser and a perfectionist, which I have a feeling you might fall in there somewhere too.
Danielle: Yes.
Valerie: Every project that you pick up, you add weight to it with those kinds of expectations. And so it's like you're walking around with all this stuff that you love to do and it's too heavy.
And so your mind, your body, your spirit suffer when you actually could be having a good time if you could just hold it all a little more lightly. Right?
Danielle: Right.
Valerie: So besides teaching, performing and running a business, you're a mom. You were just talking about your children. How old are they and how many do you have?
Parenting & A Creative Life
Danielle: I have two little girls, Ashley and Anna, and they are eight and ten years old, and they are obviously the light of my life. I love them dearly. They're two completely different opposite personalities from one another. They're, they are my yin and yang for sure. But they're so fun and they're, in their first couple years of being in choir and, and getting their feet wet in music.
They like to do all kinds of other stuff too. But, they do have some interest in music too.
Valerie: So how do you get your creative work done? How do you get your business work done? How do you get your work done with these two little ones?
Danielle: Oh gosh. Well, up until now at this stage of their life, it was tricky. It was really tricky. But they're both in school, so I really try to make the most of the time while they are at school to get all of my stuff done. I had enrolled them in the after school program so that I could lengthen my office hours because I wanna be able to shut everything down by the time they get home.
So my attention is on them and what they need and their activities. That's not always possible, but that's what I'm always shooting for. I have that going for me. For me, it's a juggling act of just constantly reprioritizing things. So everything's always urgent.
Everything is always, needs to be done right away. But I think I've just developed more of a mindset of like, I'm just gonna keep the most important thing in my mind at any given time, even though there's 20 important things on the list, I'm gonna keep the top one in mind and try to, you know, work on that first.
Ever since my kids were young, I've always wanted to really show my kids who I really am. And so they were raised in a green room. I, I went back to work after having them probably like four weeks after having the babies.
They were in the green room with a nanny. I was coming backstage and nursing them and, you know, all this craziness. And I've never been I guess what you'd consider maybe a traditional mom where you do certain things a certain way or you're a good homemaker. I'm not bad at those things, but I kind of do things differently because of who I am as business person and artistically, but I want my girls to see that.
I want them to see that you create your life the way you wanna do it, and you don't need to apologize for that, or you don't need to fit a certain mold. Society tells you how you're supposed to be a mom, you know, or else your kids are gonna be messed up and..
Valerie: Right. And it'll be all your fault.
Danielle: All your fault. And, you know, so if you don't have a refrigerator full of organic greens, you know, you're done, your kids are going to prison.
You know, it's just, it's just not true. You know, I, I, and, and so I, I do things off the beaten path a lot, but I have two really happy little girls and they're really thriving. They're doing great. They know who their mom is and they know that when they grow up, they can be whoever they want to be.
And so we have built a life and a schedule and a routine around who we are as, as people. It's not the right thing for everybody, but it really, really works for us. And so, you know, I think any mom out there that's struggling with that, I think it's really first removing that, weight of guilt or comparison to other parents out there that like, I don't look like the mom next door and I don't act the way she does.
I would just drop that right away, and just, you know, ask yourself who, who are you as a family and you know, how can you build a schedule and routine and habits that align with that? And don't apologize for that.
Valerie: I bet there was a lot of trial and error in the mix, especially when they were, younger. But it sounds like you've found a pretty good place, a pretty good balance between your work and, and family life at this point.
It is so much easier after they get in school, and I know, all the moms that I've been talking to, the ones that are having the hardest time, of course, are the ones with the, the children who are able to walk and run on their own.
When they're tiny little babies, there's things about that that are difficult, but you can at least pick them up and take them places and they won't run off and kill themselves, run in the street or whatever. You know, you're not quite so busy keeping them alive.
So when they were younger, before they were in school, what looked different and how much does your husband help?
Danielle: Yeah, it was so much different back then, and I, I felt that same pressure of just so much mom guilt around the fact that like, I really wanted to keep the momentum going in my business, but I also wanted to be a really good mom. Inevitably when you're putting effort in one thing, another is suffering.
And so I guess it's just kind of a little bit of a back and forth of trying to keep that somewhat in balance. But, if I could go back and talk to myself as a new mom, I would say relax. And it's not always gonna be like this. Just try to enjoy all of the different stages and not feel too much pressure to make things happen. All the potty training, the bottle feeding all, all of the things, the, the walking, all those things you feel so pressured about.
Um, I felt tremendous guilt about the fact that I had to have a lot of help. You know, I had to have a nanny all the time. My mom was present and was there to help. My husband was there to help.
I always felt guilty that I should be able to do all this by myself. But if I had tried to do that and also run multiple businesses, I would've had a nervous breakdown.
So, you know, I asked for help. I did the best that I could. And it was a tremendous relief when they did turn that corner, like you're saying, where you develop a certain level of trust of your kids, where, you know, they're not going to jump out of window or, burn the house down or anything..
...crazy.
Valerie: Right.
Danielle: And, you know, you can turn your back for a minute and..
Valerie: Right. they're, more than potty trained. You can take 'em out in the world. And they won't, they won't freak out and lie screaming on the grocery store floor cuz they didn't get the gum or..
Danielle: Right.
Yes.
Valerie: All those things.
Yeah.
Danielle: Yeah. Thank God they're at the age they are now. Cuz I really try to teach them to be independent and to, you know, take care of their own needs that they are capable of taking care of. And I think as moms we really kind of chop their legs out from underneath them a lot of times by trying to do too much for them.
Where we're really, in the end, we're really trying to grow capable people that we can send out into society you know, that can be, uh, helpful. So I try... I'm really always working on that, trying to make them more independent and build their confidence by showing them that, um, they can do a lot more for themselves than they think they can.
Valerie: That's lovely. I love that.
So how do you treat yourself when you can't get to your work? When something happens, you have to pick up the kids from school cuz one of them's sick or, you know, those kinds of things. What is the internal dialogue like for you?
Danielle: You can do all the planning and structuring you want, but stuff happens. Kids get sick at school or the whole household gets sick. Or a field trip that you had no idea about is happening five minutes after you drop a kid off. And, you know, those things, they just, they happen and, uh, really messes with the schedule.
And my initial reaction is always like, I'm screwed. You know, I panic. Of course, I'm, I'm not gonna lie, you know? It sends me into a panic at first. But then again, I always like to go back to that, that setting that I developed during covid, which is like, you know what? It can wait till tomorrow. Nobody's gonna die. You know? And thank God for cell phones and, you know, being able to do things remotely.
There is that internal that can be, negative. But I try not to dwell in that space and live in that space. I, I give myself a moment and just recognize that, I'm not curing cancer here. Uh, everything's gonna be okay.
Valerie: Right.. It's not brain surgery.
It sounds like what you've learned how to do through all of your life and through all of your work has been to put things in a kind of perspective.
I know sometimes you have bad days, but you seem like you feel, for the most part, just centered and in the moment that you're in. And I, I love that about your energy. I just wanted to tell you that. Cuz uh, yeah.
Cuz there's so much fear in this business too. I'm not good enough. I'm never gonna get whatever, fill in the blank.
So much of the business is about rejection. So how you think about yourself, how you move through the world, how you react to the things that you can't control are all of the things that I feel like the inner singer in each of us needs to learn how to do.
And when you have somebody that you see modeling that behavior, even if you don't know them, it's another way of being mentored by these people that have that kind of energy that you wanna embed in your own life, in your own body.
Danielle: Right, right. That's so true. Yeah, and I think you've really kind of hit on what how I feel I've grown as a person, you know, through all that. I mean, going through the pandemic was just like, devastating, but also a big growth opportunity. I just went through a divorce this year and so it's like, yeah, it's okay.
You know, it's, it's, it's back to back things that make it feel like your whole universe has been burned to the ground, But, you know, what happens in, in a fire is those things that are the strongest kind of emerge from the rubble. And, you know, you pick those things back up and you just continue walking through life.
Many, many things that have unfolded throughout my life have just really shown me who I am and that it's really about the journey and how you're experiencing your journey. Are you, are you happy? Are you having fun? Are you making memories? Are you growing?
It's in the mundane things during the day and it's during the big victories, the lowest lows. It's, it's really the experience. It's not about where you're getting with it. We don't know this until we start getting a little bit older you know?
When these things, these happen, you know, I, my business is very important to me and I wanna be successful and everything, but I just know that, that's just a thing and I'm not overly concerned about it. But, the work that I am putting out into the world, you know, helping other singers, that's part of the journey. I get to tap into other people's lives and experience what they're doing. And that means more to me than anything that I have going on. And so that's what it's about for me, for sure.
Valerie: So are you going to be doing another Unstoppable Singer Summit this year?
Danielle: Yeah. It's gonna be taking place live starting May 8th through the 10th. We have another, incredible lineup of speakers. And this will be the fourth Unstoppable Singer Summit. I can't believe that that's true, but this will be the fourth one. And I think it's gonna be the best one ever because we've had so many learning experiences. We've been able to figure out what is the best of the best and the most needed for the community. So I am just more hyped than ever. So I'm excited.
Valerie: Oh, I'm excited for you and I'm excited for all the singers that will partake in the Unstoppable Singers Summit because I think there's so... it's so rich. There's so much fertile ground there for learning. And yeah, even if you've been doing it for a while, it's always good. You come away with one pearl and it's worth it, you know?
Well thank you again, Danielle, for taking time out to talk with me today. It has been such a pleasure. I just love how you've made your, your way in the world.
I think a lot of singers start out wanting to be famous. And our culture's so weird. It's like we, you either become famous as an artist or you're shamed because you didn't make it. And I really want people to know that building a life in music IS making it.
Danielle: Yeah, I think so too.
Valerie: Thank you for listening to this episode of Living A Vocal Life. If you enjoy the conversations here and want to support the podcast, now you can, whether you're listening on your favorite podcast app or my website, you can buy me a virtual cup of coffee.
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