Episode #11: Jazz Singer & Songwriter Karla Harris
Welcome to Living A Vocal Life: A Podcast For Singers!
Welcome to the Living A Vocal Life Podcast, where I interview singers who have succeeded in creating a life in music. You’ll hear from vocalists of all genres, in different stages of their careers, including singers who’ve been on the Billboard charts and those who are teaching the next generation. What do they have in common? They're all performers with amazing stories to tell and experiences to share.
In our conversations, you’ll learn what inspired them to become a singer, the kinds of challenges they’ve encountered, and how they've overcome them. I'll also share what I've learned on my own journey as a singer and educator — practical tools and insights that will help you to live your best, most authentic vocal life.
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In this episode of the podcast I’m excited to introduce you to my friend, jazz singer, and song writer, Karla Harris.
Karla has been singing professionally for over 30 years. She’s sung at jazz festivals, TED Talks, and is currently an artist in residence at Kennesaw State University where she teaches the next generation of jazz singers.
Her new album, “Certain Elements” was released in 2018 and reached the #44 spot on the prestigious Jazz Week chart. Two of her original tunes on the record are semi-finalists in the International Songwriting Competition in the jazz and performance categories.
I first heard Karla sing at Wilf’s, a small jazz club in Portland, OR. Her rich command of the jazz idiom, luscious voice, and presence onstage drew me in, and made me a fan for life.
In our conversation, you’ll hear:
How she approaches writing and learning songs.
The importance of downtime and reflection in a creative life.
How to network with other musicians.
The importance of practicing with sound equipment.
How she supports her “jazz habit”.
What makes her a confident bandleader.
The mind/body connection in singing and emotional vulnerability.
And much more.
“It’s all in service of the song and in service to the listener. What we do is always important, but...more so than ever. I just feel like it’s our job to go out and help people feel better.”
Links:
You can find Karla Harris on: Facebook, or her website.
The songs from today’s episode are When Michael, Give It All To Me, and Certain Elements (Atl Groove V) and are from Karla’s Certain Elements CD (used with permission.) To listen or download, go HERE.
To find out more about my online course, Becoming A Singer: Setting The Stage To Live A Vocal Life go HERE.
Theme music for the Podcast was composed by John Smith. He edits all the podcast episodes too. (Thanks honey!)
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Valerie:
Hi Karla, I am so glad that you persevered. We had a few technical difficulties getting to this point, but you made it through, and here we are, and I am so glad that you are on the podcast today.
Karla:
Oh hallelujah. I am glad to be here, and the gremlins be gone. The technical gremlins be gone.
Valerie:
The technical gremlins be gone. We're actually going to get back to technical difficulties in a bit because you said you had a good story about that, and I want to hear it, But I want to pivot to your origin story first and um, find out what your first memory of singing is. Like what do you remember about where you were, or who you were with, or what it even felt like?
Karla:
Um, well I guess my first memory is not one that I have myself, but my mother tells me that when I was just a, you know, a toddler or a baby, I would be in the grocery cart when she was pushing me down the grocery store aisle, singing nursery rhymes.
Valerie:
Nice!
Karla:
Yeah. So I think I was always, I must've just always loved song. Probably my first memory of actually singing would be, I would spend Saturday afternoons when I was a little girl, and I would be in the living room with my parent's turntable, and I'd be listening to a lot of the albums from their stack. But I just, I didn't just listen to them. I think I analyzed the lyrics even when I was a little girl, and I would be dropping that needle up and down to try to get it right where I had, you know, pulled it up so I could scribble the next line that Barbara Streisand or Nancy Wilson sang, and you know, and then try to put it right down in the same spot so I could get the next line, and I transcribed lyrics like that.
Valerie:
Wow.
Karla:
Yeah.
Valerie:
How old were you when you were doing that?
Karla:
Oh, I was little. I was maybe second grade. Uh, so seven years old, I guess. I have a very, I mean very clearly remember that. I would do that on Saturday afternoons. It was one of my favorite ways to spend a Saturday afternoon.
Valerie:
Incredible as a seven-year-old. I know words are important to you. And so that is perfect actually for who you are and who you later became.
I know that that stack also was filled with all kinds of different singers. I mean, you mentioned Nancy Wilson and Barbara Streisand. Who else did you listen to on your Saturday afternoon transcribing sessions?
Karla:
Oh, the Fifth Dimension, so Marilyn, McCoo and um, and um, Aretha Franklin was in there too. Queen of soul. I see. When I say these names, I actually can see the album covers. Um, Billy Holiday as well. Sammy Davis, Sammy Davis J. Um, was in there. Instrumentalists as well. Ramsey Lewis, uh, herb Alpert. So.
Valerie:
Great stack of records to grow up listening to.
Karla:
It was diverse. And then my dad would, uh, he would wake up, and he'd be singing. So he would come in and, you know, to get us up for our Saturday morning chores. It was the smell of pancakes cooking and my dad's singing; it's time to get up. It's time to get up it's time to get up in the morning.
Valerie:
I love it.
Karla:
Yeah. And he learned, he had little country songs that he would sing. So it was a lot of different genres. Yeah.
Valerie:
Were your parents musicians? Was anybody else in the family a singer?
Karla:
No. I had nobody who was a professional musician in my immediate sphere. I just couldn't conceive of it. To me, it just seemed like it was something that famous people did not, not just a normal person growing up in the suburbs. I had no professional musicians in my family. I had one uncle who liked to sing, but he was, you know, he would do like a little group singing with some friends of his, but it was nothing that was a profession.
Valerie:
So, where did you grow up?
Karla:
I grew up in West St Louis County. It's a far West suburb of the city of St Louis.
Valerie:
And what music was in that area at that time? Were you at all influenced by the music that was in your community?
Karla:
I don't remember going out and hearing a lot of music in the community when I was little. My parents didn't really do that. Um, it was a really a typical kind of, you know, mid-seventies upbringing. My parents worked, they came home, uh, mom cooked dinner, dad got stuff done, we ate, did our homework, and you know, it was very rare to go out, and we didn't go out to dinner and we, and we didn't go out and hear a lot of music. Now I went to my first concert when I was, I think when I was 12 years old, and that was a concert at six flags. And I saw Eric Carmen.
Valerie:
I'm not familiar with Eric.
Karla:
Oh, All by myself. Oh goodness. All By Myself. Celine Dion went on to have a big hit with it.
Valerie:
Oh. OK.
Karla:
And he was, I think, the first album that I bought with my own money. And after I saw the concert, I was so excited.
Valerie:
What excited you about it, and did you ever imagine that you would be up there on stage?
Karla:
Well, here's the thing. When I was in grade school, and I was transcribing all of those lyrics, how I got to perform them was as a lot of singers do for their families. So we would have, you know, Christmas with all my mom's whole family over and I would, and my cousin would put on shows for the relatives, and that's where we would sing. I mentioned the Fifth Dimension. So we had this whole, you know, act that we did for One Less Bell to answer. And...
Valerie:
I love that.
Karla:
Yeah. We would come out...
Valerie:
Love that song. Love imagining you doing that.
Karla:
Love it! One less, one less man to pick up after we would put a pair of my dad's briefs on the floor and like sing that line and kick 'em as we were walking across the floor. And so yes, I was definitely imagining myself performing. I would put on shows just for nobody in, my dad did a lot of remodeling of the house, and so there was a whole summer where the living room was just a concrete, you know, he was building this new living room addition, and it was just a concrete box basically. And I turned that into my, you know, my sound studio, my stage, and I pretended like I was on the Carol Burnett show. And I would perform, and then I would interview myself.
Valerie:
Go, girl.
Karla:
I was actually a fairly; I was a shy little girl, you know, I sang my first solo when I was in fifth grade. And then I'm in sixth grade I had to do it again, and I froze. I just, you know, I completely froze. It was not, I wouldn't say it was a natural thing. I wasn't like this, you know, natural-born performer. Some of these people just come out, you know, look at me. Here I am. You know, I wasn't like that. No.
Valerie:
You were shy, but you were driven. You were so passionate about this.
Karla:
I was passionate about it. Yeah, I loved it.
Valerie:
So when did you know that you wanted to make music your career? When did it sort of go from singing in that uh, bunker of your dad's construction site to actually saying, you know what, I want to do this, uh, and make a living doing it?
Karla:
Well, let's see. I started off, I sang in high school with bands, and that was a lot of fun. And then, I started in college, and I got called to be in a jazz quartet that was performing as part of this organization called Young Audiences that would go to elementary schools. And we did a show on introduction to jazz music for kids. And that was probably where I said, Oh, this is something that I can make money at, and you know, put gas in my Pinto, and you know. And you know, I was being mentored, learning a lot from Jeannie Trevor, who was a very well known regional jazz vocalist and still is actually in St Louis. And she was the main vocalist in this quartet. And they asked me to join to do some of the more contemporary jazz, which I didn't really know what I was doing, but she was so welcoming and so helpful and encouraging that, she made me feel like I belonged.
Valerie:
So important, especially when you're first starting out. What a wonderful thing to have a mentor like that.
Karla:
And I have never forgotten how she made me feel. It was a really good lesson, and I think that's where I, I just was always in bands. I was always doing it.
Valerie:
But you didn't go to college for music. You actually went to college to get your degree in speech communications.
Karla:
I did.
Valerie:
With a certification in speech and drama.
Karla:
Yeah, I did that because um, I think there were two things I couldn't think of having a music degree as a practical thing other than teaching music. And I didn't really want to be a music teacher. And I didn't want my whole world to be just music. I loved words. I loved writing. I loved, you know, journalism and that kind of thing. There were these two sides of my brain, two sides of my being, and I wanted to nurture both of them.
So I went to school and got the speech communications degree, but I was always doing music, and you can do that. It's very important for people to know that you can do that.
Valerie:
You mean that you can nurture two sides of yourself? You don't have to just go for the music. You can also be passionate about something else and pursue that. Is that what you mean?
Karla:
That's what I mean. Yeah. I always could say when people asked, are you a singer? Well, I sing, I always say, yeah, I sing, I sing. But to me, it seemed a little presumptuous or something or a little lofty to say, yeah, I'm a singer. Uh, singers were people who are way cooler than I ever felt like I was. The people who I saw who were out there doing it, I just felt like they were kind of like from a different planet or something.
Valerie:
Oh, interesting.
Karla:
Yeah. And so I said, I sing, and it's something that I do on the side, kind of. And it wasn't until I was about 40 years old now, even though I had always been a singer that I actually said to myself, I am a singer.
Valerie:
Wow.
Karla:
And it made a big difference in just how I started perceiving myself and also how opportunities started coming to me.
Valerie:
That is a really amazing and interesting shift. I mean, it sounds like for about 20 years you, you sang. But then at 40, something shifted. Do you remember what the impetus was for that kind of reframing of who you were and how important your voice actually was?
Karla:
Here's what I think it was. I think that a lot of inner growth comes during times of transition. Transitory times are tender times. And a lot of times, um, you do more looking inward than all the stuff that keeps us busy looking outward. And at that point in my life, we moved from St Louis to Portland, so it was a major move. I had never moved away from St. Louis before. I was in a place that I honestly had never even really thought about before.
Valerie:
Right. You didn't even know probably where it was on the map.
Karla:
It wasn't on my radar at all. I was in a really good position musically in St. Louis. I was working a lot. I was working within a capacity that I really loved, and I was learning a lot. And then my husband got relocated, and we went to Portland. And so it was during that kind of time of transition that I started doing some deeper work. And to me, it just felt like I was being brave to say I am a singer. It's not just something that I do.
Valerie:
So moving to Portland, it sounds like, gave you an opportunity to remake yourself, but it came from the inside out. Is that right?
Karla:
It gave me an opportunity to state my priorities differently. So I was saying I'm not going to just treat this now is something that is optional. This is now something that I really want to do, and I want to do it in a bigger way.
Valerie:
That is so interesting, Karla. Because the first time I met you, I was trying to remember, we've, we've been friends for a while, but the first time I met you, it was at a little club in Portland called Wilf's. And I heard you sing and you had so much, I want to say charisma, but also kind of the solid sense of self that I got from... You know, you're probably thinking, really? We all think that, right?
Karla:
We all think that Oh my goodness.
Valerie:
But you projected this confidence. In who you were and just the way that you sing. I think you just get really into a song, and you become the song, and there's confidence in that. Anyway, it's so interesting to hear that this was a real pivot point in your life where you'd actually come to Portland, and that had made a major impact on how you viewed yourself and your music.
Karla:
Yeah, and I did that not having any real idea that Portland was such a rich, yummy, jazz nurturing mmm. You know, I had no idea what I was getting ready to enter into.
Valerie:
It's a wonderful community.
Karla:
Oh, it's a wonderful community. And you talk about just this feeling like the synchronicity of that as I look back on it here, I was saying, I want to do this more in this way, and I was in the exact perfect place...
Valerie:
At the right time.
Karla:
At the right time to be nurtured into that even more.
Valerie:
So how did you go about meeting other musicians when you moved like that? I mean, it's a big deal moving from your place of origin to somewhere you've never been and never even thought of.
Karla:
Yeah. And you know I've done it twice now. So because I live in Atlanta now, so we had, we left Portland six years ago. And so I've made a move across the country twice. I've had to start over twice in that way.
Valerie:
I think that's a really hard thing to do and a lot of singers think, you know, I need to move somewhere else to make it, or I better not move anywhere else cause I know all the musicians here, and I'm deeply embedded, you know. So I'm thinking people will be curious about how you go about learning who's in the community and connecting with them.
Karla:
Well, it's networking. In the jazz situation, it's going to jam sessions and meeting the players. It's kind of just getting started and then walking that path and saying, okay I met you now, who do you know who I should meet? And who do you think that I should connect with? And this is the kind of music that I like to do. This is the kind of player that you know, I kind of sync up well with who likes to play in that way? You know, asking those questions and getting out there with... In Portland, I stumbled upon a group of jazz singers who would do, I think it was a monthly jam session at a place downtown. And through that, I got a couple of opportunities to perform at Jimmy Mak's and at Newport jazz festival. Yeah, it was, it was a holiday thing that they had at that time and, and that got me connected with musicians and other singers and clubs and you know, from there...
Valerie:
So it just kind of snowballed from there.
Karla:
Yeah, it did.
Valerie:
I think once people hear you, and then you start asking around for other opportunities, if people love your voice, which I'm sure they did, then they want to help you. Is that right?
Karla:
I think that people are always looking for singers who know how to do what they love to do well. I think that that's not something that you can replace with AI anytime soon.
Valerie:
Thank God for that. Yes. There's two. Yeah, there are too many things that go into being a singer to be able to just smash it all down to an, into a couple, you know, ones and zeros.
Karla:
Yeah, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Valerie:
No, no. So you got to Portland, you said to yourself, I am a singer. You got out there, got some gigs, spent how many years in this community?
Karla:
I was there for eight years.
Valerie:
Eight years. And then you had to move to Atlanta?
Karla:
Yes. It happened again. Yeah.
Valerie:
Your husband got another transfer?
Karla:
Yes. He got another transfer. Yes. And again, I was reticent. But a part of me, I remember telling a friend, a part of me knows that I'm supposed to go. And not just because, you know, my family needs to move there, but just me personally that I was meant to go. So even though I wasn't exactly jumping up and down with joy at making another move. Um, you know. And you always go through this period, do I still want to do this? Do I want to start over? Do I want to, you know, get out there and reintroduce myself? And all of those things.
It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's not easy, but if you are passionate about singing and if you are as I am and as I know you are, a person who when you're not singing, you don't feel like you're fully breathing somehow. Um, yeah. There's just something off. And then you know, you go on vacation, and you think, ah, I so needed this vacation. Why didn't I do this sooner?
Valerie:
Right.
Karla:
That's how it is when I'm not singing. I feel off somehow. Yeah.
Valerie:
From teaching for years, I had a lot of students who hadn't sung for a long time, and they wanted to take voice lessons and get back into it, and many of them came because they recognize that they were depressed from not singing because it does something for you that nothing else in the world does.
Karla:
Absolutely.
Valerie:
It's the best drug there is. I mean, as far as, you know, dopamine, epinephrine, all the things that get stimulated by singing and then you know, being in the middle of a band or choir or any of that stuff, it just really lifts you up. And when you're, yeah, when it's not in your life, something's off.
Karla:
Something's off. But you know what is also funny is I found that even if I'm just in my living room at the piano and I'm just singing, and nobody else is there, it is extremely therapeutic. So you don't have to have an audience for it to have an impact, at least not, you know, in my experience.
Valerie:
That is such a good point because the other thing that I know, a trap that I've fallen into, is that when I haven't been singing for a while, I don't sing when I'm not performing because somehow it's become a job. And so I don't just sing for the joy of it. I tell my students to. I tell them, you know, I say, okay, great. You've practiced, you've worked really hard at this. Now go practice having fun doing it. You know, just like do it without thinking about, am I good enough or you know, a particular performance that you're working towards or anything like that. Just enjoy and feel, you know? Yeah. Your own, do it for your own amazement and amusement in your own living room. Like you were just talking about.
Karla:
It can turn the day around. I mean, and I'm, I'm talking about just walking past piano going, Oh, I kind of want to in sitting down and just 15 minutes later. Put on... I mean I have a microphone by my piano. I have a system by my piano so that I can hear everything really well, and Oh, it's just some of the sweetest times. Yeah. Yeah.
Valerie:
That's a great thing to do, do actually. Another thing that listeners might be interested in is how to set yourself up for having those moments. And I think it's great to have a space that's already set up for everything you need to do to just go and sing. So that nothing's in the way. It's not like you have to clean off a desk, right. Or do anything in front of it. You just go and get in flow as quickly as you can.
Karla:
Right. And you know, it's, it's not, of course, we're talking about, you know, our bodies, we could sing anywhere, but it does help when you, you know, you do the things that make yourself sound nice and full and warm and rich and all of those things because you just enjoy it, you know, enjoy the sound of it more.
Karla:
I remember when I was back in St Louis, and I was working with Tom Kennedy bassist, who started a jazz quartet there. And when I left to move to Portland, he said, do you have gear? You know, do you have a sound rig and everything? And I thought, well, no, I don't. I mean, I've always sung with bands that I just kind of walked in and stood in front of the microphone and...
Valerie:
It just happened! It was somebody else's gear.
Karla:
It was all the gear fairies who were there, setting everything up! And so he gave me some gear, and he said, I think it's good for singers to plug in sometimes. And he's absolutely right. It's good to plug in.
Valerie:
And you have to practice with this stuff in order to become fluid with it too. You know? So what a wonderful thing that he took you under his wing and said, here, let's do this for you, and let's make this a part of your musical reality.
Karla:
Yup. Yeah. And I was able to gig in Portland because I, you know, I was set up to do so.
Valerie:
I didn't have my own little sound system for years, and when I finally got one, it was that same feeling of like, why didn't I do this before? This is so important. I should be practicing on a microphone. I should be recording through this microphone so I can listen back to myself. Cause you know, when you're on a gig, it's here, and then it's gone. So you never really can sit down and listen to yourself and go, what worked? What didn't? And what can I change? It's a hard practice to get into because it's so easy to listen to yourself and just go, Ugh, Oh I hate everything about it. I hate listening to my voice. It sounds so different out there than it does in my head. But if you can kind of be a sound scientist or a song scientist and look at it like, okay, what worked and what didn't? That was an experiment. What else can I experiment with that might change it to a sound that I think is better? Then you really learn. I think recording was the thing that taught me the most about my voice.
Karla:
I think that's a great way of looking at it too, to become somewhat of a scientist and so you can detach from it a little bit. Not to say that it's easy, it's not easy. And I procrastinate, you know. I'll get recordings back, and I'll wait to the, you know like it's 10 o'clock at night, and I've done everything else that I can actually think of doing before I go and put on headphones and listen. Yes, and it can be excruciating. It can be very excruciating. I've, I've definitely said burn it. You know.
Valerie:
Right! I'm never singing again. I didn't realize how bad I was. A great story that I heard and, I don't really know if it's true, is that the people who work dancing and playing music, I think too in Cirque de Solei, there's something in their contract that says they have to watch a videotape of their performance every night after the show. And they, you know, perform, I dunno, six nights a week or six, you know, if they're in Vegas, six shows, uh, or more a week. And doing that I would think would make you kind of immune to that. Oh, I hate watching myself thing. And you could detach from it in a healthy way and make it better the next night because every night you would be getting this little feedback. And then just like in practicing in your practice room, when you go for a note, and you don't make it, you try again. And when you can record yourself, and you can hear the adjustments that you're making and what kind of impact they're having on the line or the phrase or whatever, I think that's when you really start making progress.
Karla:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I certainly do it with my students. I record their performances, and then when they're in their session with me a few days later, we're looking at that iPad.
Valerie:
Right on.
Karla:
Yeah.
Valerie:
Yeah. That's great. Well, words I know are really important to you. Obviously, you went to school to learn how to use them better. You work with them in your day job currently. Tell us a little bit about your day job and how what role it plays in your life.
Karla:
Sure. So when I got my degree in speech communications, then shortly thereafter, I started working at a PR agency in st Louis, and I was in the writing and publications group at that PR agency. A couple of years later, I had my first child, and I decided that I wanted to work part-time, which I did for a while. And then, I decided to just go off and start freelancing. So I have been a freelance writer now for, Oh, it's been a couple of decades.
Yeah. So I basically work for myself. I have a client that I've had for many, many, many years. And I do an annual major project for this particular client. And it's another good income stream. I don't know a lot of musicians who are not, you know, national touring acts or international touring acts who don't also have to do something else. So it was great with my sons growing up because it was a very flexible existence.
And I look at my friends who are gigging singers and who work full time, and I honestly don't know how they do it. How they, you know, work all day at an office and then come home and think about going out and you know, singing for a few hours or trying to book jobs or, you know, figuring out what they're going to wear that weekend when they're singing I mean, all these things take time! You know, even that.
Valerie:
Right. Or help their kid with their homework or you know, there's all these family obligations that also play into the bigger picture. So it sounds like this has been not just a good financial support, but also something else that you feel like you can have as a foundation to your life and not make music have to be the be all end all, all the time.
Karla:
That's true. I think it's reduced stress in that way. You know, music can be a very expensive endeavor. Especially if you are interested in recording, uh, you know, doing a, a project, or something. It's very expensive, and this has allowed me to have a little cash cow on the side really to, um, fund my expensive habit.
Valerie:
It is an expensive habit, isn't it?
Karla:
Yeah. My jazz habit, that's what we call it.
Valerie:
Yea, your jazz habit. I love it. Okay. So it sounds like you have made a huge commitment to your musical life, but what else are you committed to in your life, and what are you committed to now, and how do you deal with competing commitments? Say between family and music, and your day job your night job. And...
Karla:
Well, the other day job that I have that just started about three years ago was I began teaching. You know, that little girl or that younger girl who didn't want to be a music teacher? Well, low and behold.
Valerie:
Never say never.
Karla:
I was offered the opportunity to be an artist in residence at a university here in Georgia, Kennesaw state that has had a very vibrant jazz studies program for about 20 years but had never had a vocal component to the program, and had some students who were interested in that.
And the director of the jazz studies department contacted me about three years ago and asked me if I'd be interested and I thought, this is not my degree. I have no business. You know, all of those shaking the finger inside your head voices came out. And then one of the other instructors said, you know, we have people on staff who can teach quote-unquote how to sing. But what we need is somebody who can teach people how to feel this kind of music. And when he said that, I thought to myself, you know what? I think I could help with that. So I started the program and turns out I love it. Just love it—love working with these students.
Valerie:
What do you love about working with the students there? That what? What is it about the way that they hear jazz or come to the program that makes you excited to teach them?
Karla:
Well, for one thing, I love their enthusiasm. They're not jaded. They are open. They just want to soak it all in. They can't soak it in fast enough. Yeah. And I also, I love working with, I love being around just that young kind of energy too. It's great. It's really rewarding in a way that I never imagined that at this point in my life, I'd, you know, I would have the opportunity to do.
So you just never know. You just never know. And the fact that the people who made the decision to bring me on board felt that my experience, that my 30 years of experience was commensurate with a degree, you know, that I had something of value. Yeah. It also made me, you know, kind of sit back and go, huh, maybe I've done some stuff.
Valerie:
Yeah, right? I felt that so many times, wherein so many other fields if you go from point a to point B, you get a diploma, you get some kind of outward recognition of something that you've done. But when you're an artist of any kind, it's different, and you don't get that outer recognition as easily. So to have your 30 years, I mean they're lucky to have you. To have your 30 years recognized in that way I think is great and it's, it's appropriate. The depth of feeling that you know how to express and the way that you think about it.
Because we've had lots of conversations about how you approach songs and how and how you approach just anything that you do on stage. You have years of trying out different things and being able to help young students experiment with those things. That's got to be really, really fun.
Karla:
I'm enjoying it and all the people that I work with at the university too. It's just a great situation. You know, it's another thing that I've had to balance in between the performing and the teaching and the freelance writing work.
Valerie:
That's a lot.
Karla:
It is a lot, and some of these areas are expanding, the performances are growing, and the teaching opportunities are growing. And you know, every month I sit down and I say, you have to keep evaluating and saying, what do I want this balance to look like. And to remind myself that I am in control of my schedule. Ultimately, even though we often feel that we are not in control, we really do get to choose. Yep. The choices may not always be easy to make, but we do get to choose.
Valerie:
I think that's important. Uh, what you just said about sitting down once a month and deciding. A lot of times, we just get so wrapped up in what we're doing that we're just going headlong into the next activity without any kind of moment to sit down, step back, say what is important, and reflect. I think that reflection is key to being able to have a sustainable career in this business.
Karla:
It is. And it's so interesting to me when we're talking about, again, those times of transition are the times when you do a lot of that reflection, and then you get through the transition and things are rolling along, and you're busy, and your schedule is full, and what are you not doing? Right? You're not reflecting. And it's essential. And I find, sometimes, that the kind of the creative juices when they feel like they're drying up somehow in some ways it's because there's not enough of that downtime. Gotta have that downtime.
Valerie:
Gotta have that downtime. You've got to have that fertilizer. Yeah. Mucking about in the soil. So new things can grow.
Karla:
Yeah. And I think creativity really flourishes during uncertainty. So it's kind of a dichotomy or a paradox, whichever one fits there best. But it's interesting to me that, um, when you feel like you've got all gears are really engaged, is often when you are maybe hearing less and less from the muses.
Valerie:
Oh, that's interesting. Tell me more about that.
Karla:
I wish I could figure it out. But I think it boils down to your brain is just filled with other things. And wherever that inspiration comes from and that creativity comes from, it needs quiet. For me anyway, it needs quiet and extended periods of that. And when you wake up in the morning, and you feel like, woo, shout out of a cannon today, and I'm flying through the air until I land back in that bed tonight. It's just not a lot of time for that.
Valerie:
Yeah. Let's talk about creativity a little bit because you are massively creative, especially with words. I know they're super important to you. Even when you were a little girl back on those Saturday afternoons, you were listening to lyrics of a song. How do you make a cover song your own? How do you approach learning a tune?
Karla:
Hmm. I am somebody who, I remember, Nancy Wilson said this. She said, I sing songs that I like to sing. And with all the songs there are to do in the world, I never could much find the sense in singing a song you didn't relate to, or you didn't like. Somehow it never made much sense.
Valerie:
Life's too short.
Karla:
Life's too short. I can remember being in one of my high school bands, and they were, they were doing a cover tune that was a very popular rock tune, but the story of it was really something that had to do with child abuse, and it just bummed me out. I didn't want to sing it. So you know I didn't. I just said I'm going to pass on that.
Karla:
Now. My students don't have a choice in a lot of things. If you're listening, students, sorry, you don't get a choice.
You have to, so for cover songs, for me, if I'm drawn to it, then I'm going to write the words down with my hand on paper. I'm going to take pen to paper. And sometimes I write the lyrics down as if I'm writing a letter or as if I'm writing a little narrative, a little short story so that I can kind of get the feel of what it's really saying.
And sometimes I'll go back with songs that I've sung for some time and didn't do that. And the song will become a whole new revelation to me because I didn't sit to take the time to find out what the composer was really delving into there. What was really the message?
Sometimes being a little older gives you a different perspective. Uh, or being at a different season in your life, gives you a different perspective on a song that you had been singing for many, many, many years.
Karla:
So you reevaluate. And I always try to also think of what was the composer's original intent when I'm singing, especially the standards, which is what I sing mostly. What was the time that that song was written in? What was it written for? Was it written for a musical or not? You know, did it start as a poem? What was that original message meant to be?
Sometimes I will move to a song. Sometimes that's how I internalize it. I think that the mind, body awareness of a singer is often overlooked. But when your body is your instrument, and there's so much emotional vulnerability that goes into performing as a singer, you're really, you know, kind of laying yourself out there in a way that instrumentalists don't really have to do. The sheer fact that there is a physical instrument between them and the audience is a psychic, you know, protective barrier. And a singer, you know, why do you think we hang onto our mic stands like we do sometimes?
Valerie:
For dear life! Anchor me to this earth, mic stand.
Karla:
I did. I have a student who one time she was in there, and she just seemed so kind of like, not grounded. And I said, get that mic stand over here. And it completely changed it. We literally named the mic stand. We named it Buddy. And I, I said, and I tell her, I said, go get Buddy. You need Buddy.
Valerie:
I love that.
Karla:
But we are more vulnerable. And so the mind-body, if a song makes me, you know, I want to say, does it make me sway? Does it make me feel pulse up and down? Does it make my hips move? Where do I feel it? You know? It, is it my toe-tapping? Is it, is it my head nodding from side to side? Is it, is it as in my heart? Do I just feel like in my chest, like an emotional kind of Mmmm, or in my gut?
Valerie:
I want to take your class!
Karla:
A little woo woo sometimes. But they seem to...
Valerie:
No no. That mind-body connection is no joke. I mean, if you're not in your body when you're singing, the audience will feel it. You know?
Karla:
And haven't you had those times when you have to perform, and you can tell there's something disjointed and it's just almost, it's frightening to me.
Valerie:
Yes. It's so important to have a moment before you go on stage to take three deep breaths, which have actually been shown to calm your nervous system. Like there's something about breathing in and out three times that takes your nervous system and settles it right down. And then if you can feel your feet before you walk on stage, you can get there, you know, in your body instead of sort of floating around somewhere else. Yeah, yeah. Super important. Oh my gosh.
So I'm gonna read this back to you cause I wrote down all these steps. You said them so beautifully.
You take pen to paper, which I think is really an interesting way of doing it because there is something different about that. It's kinesthetic. It's visual. It's even auditory in a way.
Karla:
It is—to hear it scratch.
Valerie:
Scratching going across the page. Then you write a letter, or you create a letter or a short story out of the lyrics. You talked about seasons in a life and how you can revisit a song that maybe you knew when you were young and see it through a different lens.
There's a great example of that that I use with my students, which is a song in a movie that people are really familiar with. The Wizard of Oz. When Judy Garland is singing the, uh, Over The Rainbow song. She's looking up at the sky. She's youthful. She's got a little, there's a little bit of hope in that song.
Um, why can't I? It's kind of like, well, the, you know, if happy little birds can fly above the rainbow, why can't I? I can do it.
Then there's a version of her doing it as the tramp. Where she, this character that she's created that's down on his or her luck and is probably sitting by the railroad tracks without a penny to their name after a lifetime of disappointment, singing Over The Rainbow. And it becomes a totally different song. If happy little bluebirds fly above the rainbow, why can't I?
Karla:
Right. As in why was it robbed from me? Why? Why does everybody else get to do it? Yeah, right, right.
Valerie:
And just that little shift in perspective makes the song a whole other experience.
Karla:
And she wouldn't have to be in costume to be able to convey that.
Valerie:
Not really. No. So when you write your own songs, how do you approach doing that? Because you've just written a whole bunch of songs actually for your latest CD, which I still want to talk about.
So how do you go about writing your own stuff?
Karla:
Well, you know, when I was talking about being more receptive during times of transition, that's really when almost all of those songs came was after I moved to Atlanta. And I was again, I think just more open, not busy, but lots of uh, you know, lots of changes. But because I was new here, it wasn't like my schedule was busy. So I was doing a lot of long walks through the woods after I would, you know, spend time getting the house together and everything.
Karla:
Lots of long walks, lots of kind of feet on earth, which is where I get a lot of my ideas when I'm outside and somehow connected to in nature. And I tell you, those songs came pretty fluidly. They stuck with me. A certain portion of the song would stick with me, and then I built out around it.
You know, I find that I get a core, I get the melody, I get a little bit of a melody, and I get a few core phrases, the hook if you will, or the first line. And then if that stays with me for a couple of weeks, I know that it wants to be born and I will go ahead then and be able to build out from that, which to me is the really fun part because usually it comes pretty easily and that's where the wordplay and everything comes in.
That wordplay, the imagery, the drawing on, you know, drawing on pictures in my mind or rhythms that I hear. So it kinds of, I think of it as is like throwing a pebble in a pond. And then these concentric circles emanate from that. And I'm filling in in those concentric circles.
Valerie:
Beautiful. That's a great image. So you've got the bones, and you're flushing it out. Water better. I like the water, but yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've got the body of the song and, and it's asking to be born. How do you flesh out the harmony and the chords and, and the arrangement?
Karla:
I go to somebody who knows how to do it.
Valerie:
And that's...
Karla:
This, you know, this is not a one-stop-shop.
Valerie:
That's not a bad thing to do. I mean, cause there are people who are so gifted at that piece of it. You know? And it's, you've worked with some really good arrangers, it sounds like to me. Yeah. I mean the recordings that I've been listening to this last couple of weeks as I was preparing for this interview, there's some masterful arranging going on. So once you find somebody who you like the way they've arranged other material and you get in touch with them, how do you figure out how to work with them?
Karla:
With these songs? It was varied. So the first originals that I did for this last record, I sat down, and I had this, you know, the melody and the lyric, and I just sang it to the pianist that I worked with on it. I just, I sang it, and then he got where I was going with it. And I think that's the key. You have to find somebody who gets it. I was surprised really the extent to which he just kind of latched on to the sound that I was kind of thinking of. And the messaging of the tunes.
Valerie:
Emotional underpinning. Yeah. Emotional underpinning. I mean, that's what my husband is—the genius of chords. He's the man behind the green curtain. Creating the feeling of... that the song needs to have a melody can be happy. But if you put just the right chords underneath it, it can really change everything. I can't underline that piece of it enough.
Karla:
It makes all the difference. It makes... The voicings make all the difference. I didn't study that, and it's not my forte, but I know lots of people that do it very, very well. And so I mean, and that's part of the joy of music anyway, is the collaborating. And I even if I could do it all myself, would I, I don't know.
Valerie:
Well, you weren't that little girl on those Saturday afternoons transcribing records and playing the chords off of them. You were transcribing the words.
Karla:
Good point.
Valerie:
You know? I mean, that was who you were from the very beginning. So you know, everybody has their own thing. And get into your own thing and be who you are. And other people, if they're doing that too, then when you collaborate with them, it makes magic. And you've got some magical arrangements and songs on this new record. I really have enjoyed listening to it.
So, um, speaking of collaborating. The other thing that I mentioned earlier is how much confidence I felt like you had on stage. And one of the things that made me feel like you were confident is how you were directing the band. How did you learn how to do that? And is there anything you can say about how to communicate with musicians that you could share with our listeners?
Karla:
I don't even think of myself as directing the band. I honestly—I don't! You know, Mike Horsfall, he says that a lot of times he will use working with me as an example when he talks to his students about singers who just know their charts really well. And so they can help guide you through them if there's anything that goes sideways or whatever. So I think part of it is to know your material really well. Know what you have there.
Valerie:
And be able to run it down for somebody in rehearsal or right before the gig or whatever you need to do.
Karla:
Somehow you've got to have the language to be able to convey, even if you yourself are not, you know, maybe you don't read music, or maybe you're not the world's greatest, you know, with music theory or whatever. You can't explain why, you know, that should be a sharp nine. There are not a whatever. But to have some kind of an ear and the language to know. No, that's not exactly how it's supposed to be there.
Karla:
But as far as during a performance, I wish I could say I learned it from someplace or something. I think it just comes in the doing. There's no replacement for doing it. And in the doing, you gain the confidence.
And really your band, this is something that I try to reiterate with the students. Your players want you to be a confident leader. They want somebody there who is subtly, you know, emphasis on the subtly, um, keeping everything flowing and keeping the conversation going. Because with jazz, I really see it as it's a conversation, a musical conversation on stage, and so somebody has to be the moderator.
Valerie:
That's a great way to talk about it. I like it.
Karla:
And if it's your gig or it's your tune, then you better be aware and kind of you know, directing traffic.
Valerie:
Starting and ending tunes and... I noticed you have really nice eye contact when you're on stage with other musicians. But you know when you're a singer you're out front, and sometimes you can't see what's going on behind you, and you still have to convey what needs to happen next with your body. And that's where I see that you really shine.
And maybe that just relates back to what we were just talking about in that you are aware that it's a mind-body connection and you are in the song. So that means you're in your body and your body's telling the band what to do next.
Karla:
I think that that is a part of it because I've had people comment, Oh, I saw your shoulders move, so I knew, you know, I knew that that's what was happening there, or you know, little things like that. I also think it's really important when you're choosing who you want to work with, that they instill in you a sense of trust.
Valerie:
Yes.
Karla:
That you feel comfortable on the stage with them so that you feel comfortable kind of being the traffic cop and you can trust that it's—if it goes off, you know a little off the rails it's going to get back on.
I always said I love it when I work with so-and-so. It's like I have a big easy chair back there that I can just sink into and I can focus on really getting into the delivery of the story of the music.
Valerie:
What do you think makes a musician akin to an easy chair?
Karla:
That's great. You are definitely a Lazy Boy, and you are definitely, umm...
Valerie:
You're a swivel chair, and you're a...
Karla:
I tell you what's a big benefit is. Are they empathetic to what a singer does and what it requires for a singer to do what a singer does? And the differences, some instrumentalists are more in tune with that than others.
Valerie:
Yes.
Karla:
So that was a dry, yes!
Valerie:
No, I've had instrumentalists come to my studio and want to learn how to sing, and it gives them a new appreciation for what singers do. And they're also, um, one of the hardest things for them to do usually is come out from behind their instrument and sing without that lovely barrier, that thing that they can hide behind, you know.
So, so yes, I think whether they sing or not, having empathy for the singer is really important, and they know how to listen and maybe that they even know the lyrics of a song, so they know what the story is being told.
Karla:
That's so important.
Valerie:
And can help support that.
Karla:
That's a really great point.
Valerie:
You know, it's all in service of the song.
Karla:
It's all in service of the song and in service to the listener. I just feel like what we do is always important, but I don't know, just more so than ever. I just feel like it's our job to go out and help people feel better.
Valerie:
Yes. Or open them up to new feelings that they didn't even know they had. Or express them in a way that's new to them. Or take them to a place that they have a hard time going by themselves.
Karla:
Right. And give them permission. And as you know, a place that's safe to feel. So many of us are shut off from just feeling.
Valerie:
Let's go back to career for a second. What does success look like for you 20 years ago, and what does it look like for you today?
Karla:
Well, 20 years ago, I was younger, and I had young sons, and so my priority really was raising beautiful human beings. And I think that, you know, success to me musically was more external. Was, was I out there, was I doing the thing? Did people like it? Was I in demand was I, you know, just getting to get out there and do what I love to, to do.
And I think now it's more internal. I think now it's more a sense of, do I feel like I'm contributing? I mean, it's still, of course, wonderful to have people say, you know, nice things. But there's more peace with it now. And I think that success at this point is more about what am I contributing? What am I contributing to that's positive? That is of beauty in a world where there's so much that's not pretty. And kind of trying to balance those scales. That's what matters to me now.
Valerie:
I get that. It's a good season of life, actually. Right?
Karla:
It is.
Valerie:
I like it.
Karla:
It is. I do too. I mean, I don't like hips that hurt and things like that, but... Yeah, I mean it's funny I'll be dancing, you know dancing on stage now and then, and then waking up the next morning and, Okay...
Valerie:
Where's that bottle of Advil?
Karla:
Yeah, I need a massage.
Karla:
Is there a moment in your career that you can point to as one of your favorite moments?
Karla:
Well, there are several, but there's one that stands out in my mind, and it was actually several years ago. It was a really great show. It went very, very well. And that's not why it stands out to me, though. It was at a music festival. That's not why it stands out to me, either. I worked with great people. That's not why either.
It's after. I was sitting there backstage, and I felt such a sense of bliss. I can't even describe it, but it was so blissful. I felt completely in the present. It was nothing but sheer joy. And I always think about that moment because I thought that is really where happiness is. It's in the present. That's where bliss is. And so when we do music, we are all so often in the present, and that's not the experience in their jobs. We get to do something that actually can put us in that state where the stuff really is.
Valerie:
Right. The juicy part of flow.
Karla:
Yeah. And so I remembered that. I remember that after that performance because I thought, wow, that I, you know, I don't know how often that happens, but that was nice. Yeah.
Valerie:
Even if it's only a small percentage, I've found that that particular feeling, that moment is worth all the other stuff that you have to go through to get there. And maybe, maybe it's easier to, you know like there are seasons of life where you're like struggling to hone your craft. There are things about your voice that you can't figure out, and you're reaching and not achieving and doing all those things — either artistically or in your career. And so there's a lot of striving.
I think it's lovely to have those moments where you can just actually sit back and go, That was a moment in and of itself that maybe I can make larger in the rest of my life.
Karla:
Yes.
Valerie:
If I can remember that moment, and call for that feeling, and breathe it into who I am in this moment. It can last longer than however long that actually was in real-time. Right? Do you know what I mean?
Karla:
Oh, I do. I do. And it stays with you. It stays with you in a really, really incredible way. Uh, you know, especially what you're talking about with, um, the challenges of just being a singer, being a performing vocalist. And, and what I often think of is you have to get used to this low-grade anxiety. That, to me, is with you always like a low-grade fever.
Because if you have performances coming up, then you're thinking, Oh, am I going to be healthy? Oh, is the pollen going to be high? It's going to write, you know, make mess everything up. And uh, I mean, these kinds of thoughts are all, am I gonna, I can't sleep. I have insomnia. It's going to make me hoarse. There's always—there's this stuff. And you have to learn to live with this low-grade anxiety, in my experience. If I could figure out how to get rid of it completely, I, believe me, somebody tell me.
Valerie:
Yeah, right. It can be lessened by having great vocal exercises you can do. And, and you know, all that stuff. But really, even then, it's still there because you're a body walking on the planet and you can't control everything. And we'd like to be able to control everything so that all the conditions are perfect, but they never are, you know? So, how do you deal with that? How do you deal with that low-grade anxiety?
Karla:
Self-care. It is important to, I mean, you're basically an athlete, so you do have to take care of yourself in the best possible way. You do have to have your exercise regime, vocal exercises, and physical exercises so that you just are, you know, your instrument is in shape. Um, but the self-care I take baths. Lots of bubble baths.
Valerie:
Nice. Calgon, take me away!
Karla:
Exactly! Exactly. I spend a fortune in bath salts. I, you know. I make sure I work out.
Valerie:
Can you write that off? I mean, like if you do a schedule C on your taxes?
Karla:
There's so many things you can write off, but I'll have to ask my accountant. Tax season is coming up, so.
Meditation, you know, quiet time. That quiet time. So important. Support groups, talking to other singers, you know? I'm not the only one who feels this way. Oh hallelujah. That in and of itself takes down the stress.
Valerie:
No kidding! Oh my gosh. Just having somebody else say, Oh, I've been there, done that. I feel the same.
Karla:
Yeah. That's why I love these podcasts that you're doing because when I'm hearing the other singers, even people who have done things at levels that I have never done, uh, you know, it's all the same. It's all the same. I like to read singer bios. I like to, you know, look up old magazine articles. Cracks me up. We are all the same.
Valerie:
We are. There's a lot more that unites us than divides us, especially as a singers.
Karla:
I remember being up in Seattle at Jazz Alley, and I was there to see Nancy Wilson perform about a year before she quit performing live. And I was in a seat that was right next to the little ramp that goes onto the stage. And she was standing right behind me waiting for the trio to finish their instrumental. She was right behind me. I, I looked, I mean I sound like such a fangirl cause I am. But I could see that, you know, like the ring on her finger, the diamond ring on her finger.
And then I heard her, she just coughed. I mean she coughed and cleared her throat and really, I mean she had some phlegm happening. And it was like, There's Nancy Wilson. Got a big ole' you know, chunk of something right before she's gotta go onstage. I feel ya, sister!
Valerie:
Yup. Back to the body right there. I mean, we all got 'em, and we got that phlegm wad we got to get out of there before we start to sing.
Karla:
That's right.
Valerie:
Hack a lougi, Nancy.
Karla:
Hack a lougi. Love it.
Valerie:
Or hawk a lougi?
Karla:
You know, I felt her pain, but I thought, That's oddly comforting to me. Thank you.
Valerie:
Yes, I totally get it. I totally get it.
I guess the only other question that I have for you; if you could go back in time and talk to your younger self, what would you tell her?
Karla:
Okay. Back in time, I would first say, say I am a singer sooner. It's okay to embrace that fully, and it's okay to embrace that identity fully. And not only is it okay, it is a very powerful thing to do. It's a shift. It caused a shift that was powerful. So I would encourage little Karla to just say it sooner.
And the other thing I would say to myself is, stop trying to be Marsha Brady and embrace your curls.
Valerie:
I love it.
Karla:
There's something about just being, you're really authentic, and it is as much as you can. I mean, we all hold up veils and masks, you know, at certain points for certain reasons. But there's something about embracing anything authentically that travels into the audience, I think. And, um, there's something that's...that really connects that way. They feel that. They sense that.
Valerie:
That's a psychological moment there, honey. Marsha Brady, the Marsha Brady moment. We might be able to pull a whole hour of interview out of that particular...
Karla:
Let me tell you, yeah, the whole hair conversation. Yeah. Yeah. And you could too, cause you know, you're rocking some gray hair these days and uh, I love to know how that came about too. So.
Valerie:
Well, I love your take on music and singing and being a human being on the planet, Karla. And I'm so grateful to you for taking the time to be with me here on the podcast today.
Karla:
You're very welcome. I'm honored that you asked, and I appreciate what you're doing. If there had been something like this for me to listen to when I was a young singer starting out, it would have been invaluable.
Valerie:
That's why I'm doing it. I'm doing it for our younger selves, right?
Karla:
Yes, exactly.
Valerie:
So what's next for you, honey, and where can people find you online?
Karla:
Well, you can, you can find me online at karlaharris.com. And it's Karla with a K. I don't know if it's still true, but if you do see it used to be a real estate agent in Southern California. That is not me. She's blonde.
Valerie:
She's the one with the Marsha Brady hair!
Well, I look forward to whatever you do next, please. I know we'll be in touch cause you're one of my favorite people.
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