Episode #12 Haley Johnsen

May 16

Welcome to Living A Vocal Life: A Podcast For Singers!

Welcome to the Living A Vocal Life Podcast, where I interview singers who have succeeded in creating a life in music. You’ll hear from vocalists of all genres, in different stages of their careers, including singers who’ve been on the Billboard charts and those who are teaching the next generation. What do they have in common? They're all performers with amazing stories to tell and experiences to share.

In our conversations, you’ll learn what inspired them to become a singer, the kinds of challenges they’ve encountered, and how they've overcome them. I'll also share what I've learned on my own journey as a singer and educator — practical tools and insights that will help you to live your best, most authentic vocal life.

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Singer songwriter Haley Johnson with orange black and turquoise stripes behind her.

This month’s guest on the podcast is Haley Johnsen.

Haley first stepped into the spotlight in 2012 when she made it into the top 24 contestants on American Idol. Since then, she’s worked hard to make her way as an independent musician. She’s written hundreds of songs, released three albums and numerous singles, and traveled thousands of miles on tours across the U.S.A. and Europe. She’s also the proud mama of a new golden retriever puppy.

In our conversation, you’ll hear how Haley made the leap from her dorm room to the Idol stage, what she’s learned and who she’s leaned on to grow as an artist, plus how she connects with her audience and continues to make music during this challenging time.

“If you look at it as though you’re always improving something, you’re always doing something you didn’t think you could do, then you’ve made it. Am I challenging myself to do better? And am I still enjoying it? That’s what success is to me.”

— Haley Johnsen

Links:

You can find Haley on her Website, Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter.

The songs from today’s episode are: Everything Comes Back Again from GOLDEN DAYS, and Unfamiliar and Come Morning I’ll Be Gone from THROUGH THE BLUE, (used with permission.)

You can listen or download on: BANDCAMP, SPOTIFY, or APPLE MUSIC.

Theme music for the Podcast was composed by John Smith. He edits all the podcast episodes too. (Thanks honey!)

You've decided to make singing your vocation. Now what? You may be struggling to balance your life and a career in music. Are you curious about how other singers make it or how they've dealt with success and failure? Do you wonder what their biggest challenges have been? Or how about what they've learned on their journey and what's important to them today?
Hi, I'm Valerie Day, a singer, educator, and creative explorer. You might know me from my work with the Grammy nominated band, Nu Shooz. Welcome to Living A Vocal Life where I interview singers who have succeeded in creating a life in music. You'll hear from vocalists of all genres, in different stages of their careers, including singers who've been on the Billboard charts and those who are teaching the next generation. What do they have in common? They're all performers with amazing stories to tell and experiences to share.
In our conversations you'll learn what inspired them to become a singer, the kinds of challenges they've encountered, and how they've overcome them. I'll also share what I've learned on my own journey as a singer and educator, practical tools and insights that will help you to live your best, most authentic vocal life.
This month’s guest on the podcast is Haley Johnsen.
Haley first stepped into the spotlight in 2012 when she made it into the top 24 contestants on American Idol. Since then, she’s worked hard to make her way as an independent musician. She’s written hundreds of songs, released three albums and numerous singles, and traveled thousands of miles on tours across the U.S.A. and Europe. She’s also the proud mama of a new golden retriever puppy.
In our conversation, you’ll hear how Haley made the leap from her dorm room to the Idol stage, what she’s learned and who she’s leaned on to grow as an artist, plus how she connects with her audience and continues to make music during this challenging time.

Valerie
So Hi Haley. Thanks for being on the podcast today.
Haley
Of Course! I'm so happy we finally made it here.
Valerie
I know me too. I have so many questions to ask about how life has changed for you since COVID-19 hit and how you're coping career-wise. But before we go down that road, I'd like our listeners to get to know you a little bit better. So for just a moment, let's pretend that the world hasn't turned upside down and talk about you and your story.
Haley
Okay.

Valerie
So there's a question I asked everyone on the podcast to begin with, which is, what's your first memory of singing?
Haley
Oh, man, My first memory of singing this sounds so cheesy, but I was watching the Little Mermaid, the Disney movie, and I was just so enamored with Ariel and her singing voice. And I just remember really listening and being able to sing along with her. And I didn't... It really surprised me at the time. I was three years old. But I was singing like the ah, but my mom tells me today, Haley, that was the moment that I knew you were gonna be a singer. I couldn't believe you're singing the right pitch and everything at three years old.
Valerie
That's amazing. Actually, that was a big movie in our household too.
Haley
That's a good one.
Valerie
That Disney stuff usually isn't easy to sing, you know?
Haley
Yeah, I feel like maybe it's gotten easier now. But in the back in the day, there were some hard melodies and really seasoned Broadway singers sung for the Disney princesses.
Valerie
Exactly. And there's a lot of complicated kind of melody stuff that if you're three and singing along to it, I can see why your mom was like, Whoa, this is amazing!
Haley
I actually got to meet the woman who played the singing voice of Ariel. She came to Beaverton to this old store called Christian supply where my mom worked, and she was signing autographs I was like, oh my god. She's sung Ariel songs. And I was it was so cool.
Valerie Day
That's fantastic. I love it that you got to meet her when you grew up. So you grew up in a creative household. Your father, Brian, was a drummer for Meredith Brooks in the 80s when she had a band here in Portland and your mom.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
And your mom was a makeup artist. So what was it like growing up in your family? And how have your parents influenced you creatively and in your career?
Haley
Well, from the time I can remember, my dad was playing music and drumming, just that was his full-time job jumping every night of the week. And when I was born, you know, he would come home from us gigs at four in the morning and gave me the bottle and my mom was sleeping and like kind of take that night shift.
That's cool.
Yeah, I don't remember that part. But I do remember my parents constantly blasting music in the car. At the house. They were always sharing all this new music with me, and I was always so curious about it, and they just really liked loved it. And it wasn't until I got a little bit older that I actually got to see my dad in action and play live. I can't even remember what that time would have been. But he was always drumming on things at the dinner table. And he was always jumping in on the steering wheel on the car. And my mom actually is also a great singer, she was always harmonizing with song. So I do feel like music was always sort of there around me.
Valerie
I know they've obviously been supportive, but how have they influenced you in your career?
Haley
So my parents have always been really supportive of me doing anything that made me happy. They never pushed anything on me. As far as music goes, they knew that I had an actual gift to sing. And my mom, you know, at the beginning, she would kind of encouraged me to try to sing for the family, and she'd be like, why did you ever sing for us, and I was just so scared and nervous too. I would wait till they were away from home, and I had the place to myself to just try out, you know, singing with all kinds of singers like Celine Dion and Christine Aguilera. And so they were always like, we really think you should do this. And we'd love your voice, but you do what you want to do. And so when I did the whole idol thing and was prepping for putting myself out there and that way, that's when they were like, Haley, we really will support you if you want to do this. And they were just like, fully on board and dad, my dad is probably my number one fan, he's my dad adjure. Like he's got from the beginning, you know, he was always giving me you know, advice on song structure. And just like Haley, just don't be afraid to rock out, you know, and I always just really appreciated that he's his enthusiasm and how much he's so passionate about. Just my music, and both my parents are they're both amazing, and I'm so grateful that they didn't discourage me from this path, even though they knew how hard it was.
Valerie
That's very cool that they were supportive. So before we get to the American Idol, part of your story. I kind of am interested in what you were doing at Oregon State University before you decided to go ahead and audition for Idol. I think you were majoring in sociology. Is that right?
Haley
Yeah, yeah, sociology, and I was minoring in music. So I was fairly involved in the music program.
Valerie
Did you have a career path in mind where that degree would have been useful? Or was it kind of one of those things where it's like, I should probably make sure that I have something to fall back on, like sociology, or were you interested in sociology?
Haley
I honestly was not thinking about my future until I decided to start singing. So I didn't declare my major until I was a junior. I was flip-flopping back and forth between things, and just like man, I don't know I'm not really digging this. I love to sing. And that's when I started to kind of break out of my shell, and I joined the chamber choir and women's a capella group, but by the time I was comfortable enough with the idea of having music be a bigger part of my life, it was almost too late to declare a music major. I would have been so behind in credits, and also the school at Oregon State was a lot more focused on like choral music and opera singing. And I was like, well, I love music. I don't think that's the direction I want to go.
Valerie
So you went to Oregon State University, majored in sociology, got to your junior year. Started doing more music, and then your life took off in a completely different direction because you decided to try out for American Idol. What year was that? What year in your college education was that?
Haley
So that was my final year. It's actually technically my fifth year. I did two extra terms to finish up. And that is when I sort of reconnected with a longtime family friend, Meredith Brooks, who, who you know, yes, it's actually the woman who introduced my parents and is why I'm alive.
Valerie
That's so amazing. She's played a huge part of your story.
Haley
She really has. She's always been somebody in my life who I looked up to because she was charting on VH1 and had a hit song who everybody who's knows her name knows the song. It's called Bitch. Can I say that? I said it.
Valerie
Yeah, yes, you can. You can sing it if you want
Haley
I'm a Bitch.
Valerie
There we go!
Haley
And so she was helping out another friend of mine, who had a music career going in LA, my friend Becky, she left high school and moved to L.A. and Meredith was like her, her manager, her and Meredith and her husband. Yeah, they were helping her out, and I was really close with my friend. So Meredith sort of came back into my life in that way. And when I told her I was auditioning for Idol, she was like, wait, you can sing? She has no idea. And I think I just sung for her one day and she like freaked out. And you know, Meredith is a very passionate woman. And so when she has an idea about something, she is all in, and so she was like, kind of became like my music mentor and my coach. And she really also encouraged my songwriting. She kind of showed me some books to read that really made me understand what creativity was and how to find it. And she also kind of showed me the discipline that it takes to be a musician, singer-songwriter. She had me on a very strict schedule in the thousand 12 or 2011. The summer, that's when I first auditioned and made it through to American Idol.
Valerie
How long did you work with her before you went to that first audition? Haley I think after I made it past the first audition, it might have been directly after that where she was like, Okay, do you want to do this because here's how you're going to do it. And I'm going to tell you, so basically august of 2011 to March of 2012. Meredith was a huge part of my life and even after that for like, years after that, she was helping me, and I was sending her off My songs, and so she definitely played a huge part in encouraging and challenging me and kind of just like giving me the quick tips on how to not screw it up and how to how to take it seriously and be a professional.
Valerie
It was so important to have somebody like that in your corner when you're doing something like that, that if you had never even really performed solo a lot, it sounds like. You were doing a lot of stuff in college that was choir related, but I don't know did you have very much stage experience at that point?
Haley
I mean, in my acapella group, I did have a solo and a couple songs. One song, in particular, was let's give them something to talk about by Bonnie Raitt.
Valerie
Right. Yeah, I love that tune.
Haley
I know it's so good. And I want to contest at the intercollegiate a capella like whatever competition, I can't remember how the full name of it but ICCA's. And I won Best Soloist. And that was another moment where, you know, I kind of was like okay, Alright, I can do this.
Valerie
I can do this. Yeah.
Haley
It's getting less and less scary. And I'm getting a little bit more comfortable in my body. Although looking back at old videos, I look so awkward. Like moving around.
Valerie
Of course. We all have that to look back on and go, Oh my gosh, I'm so scared. I didn't know to move. I didn't know how to connect with an audience yet. It just takes time. You know. That's why I find it so remarkable that I mean you had this incredible American Idol experience really early in your career. I'm still really curious. I keep wanting to dig in a little deeper about what Meredith did with you during that time period. So can you sketch out the timeline a little? You auditioned in the summer of 2011. And then she started working with you. And then when did you go to the next level?
Haley
Well, it's quite a trajectory. There are multiple auditions. So I think that during the fall or something, there are probably two or three different ones that I that were in Portland that were with the producers, and they slowly narrowed it down. And then once I got to Hollywood week, that's when they give you the golden ticket to go to that round. There's more behind the scenes footage, there's more drama. That's when they really are like, okay, we're gonna mess with you so hard and break you down and see if you can make it because if you can't, then well, I guess you're not up for it. So, when I was still in school, you know, I was finishing up college. I wrote my final paper in L.A. during American Idol auditions.
Valerie
Wow.
Haley
Meredith was like, you need to be running every day and singing while you run. You need to be writing every day, journaling every day. It got more intense after American Idol actually, but she was having me film myself and send her those videos of me singing, and she gave me feedback. There are times where I was just like, Oh my gosh, I don't want to do this. Like Meredith is so intense, and we do not always get along, but I think that that was good because she just kept pushing me. She was just like, I don't care. She wasn't always nice. But I really appreciated that you know, I think that I needed that because I think a big part of why I am here is because I had somebody whipping me along the way I could be kind of a lackadaisical person, and it's hard for me to focus and find my direction. I think sometimes when you have somebody helping you organize that, it can really make a difference in how you apply that later on in life as well.
Valerie
Right? So this was a huge time period for learning about how to apply yourself and what to focus on. And she was helping you with that. It sounds like a remarkable time period. It was yes. And then how many episodes Did you tape before you were off?
Haley
Even if they were airing episodes, I wasn't on every episode. But I can't remember how many episodes it was, but I do remember we auditioned in Vegas twice. And the time that they narrowed it down to the Top 40, I think it was a group song. And me and three other people we had to do this song called Night Has 1000 Eyes. And we had to do this whole little dumb dance. And we ended up getting like a standing ovation. And that was like a big airing moment for me because I had a little moment at the end of the song, where I did this big long run, and just had this moment where was just me, and that was pretty cool. But other than that, you know, there were a few other big nights where they aired live performances. But the main one would have been in March when I did my live show on the stage in L.A. with a live audience.
Valerie
So it really was almost a whole year of your life. Part of the reason I'm asking you these questions is because so many people want to be on shows like this. And obviously, you know, they're not behind the scenes like you have been, and they don't know all that goes into what American Idol and the voice and those kinds of shows actually are doing which is also telling stories, right? I've had a couple of students who made it on the show, and both of them came away from the experience feeling like they'd been transformed, but not in the ways that they expected. And they saw some behind the scenes things that showed them that those kind of shows are more about show business than about music sometimes. Was that something that you also found from being on the show?
Haley
100%. Yeah. I think that anybody can make that experience great if they go in with a positive attitude, wanting to make friends. I feel like the best part about those shows is you meet amazing people from all over the country, friends for life. But yeah, I guess the behind the scenes part is a little manipulative. And you know, when you're dealing with so many people that feel like they can only be so caring about the emotional stability of everybody.
Valerie
What do you mean by manipulative? I mean, are they manipulating you? Are they manipulating the audience through how they tell your story or...
Haley
Well, I just feel like they want good T.V. And they will do things to push people to their limit and get them to give good T.V. by crying or overreacting or just reacting in any way. And I feel like in essence, you know, that's showbiz, you know, that is reality T.V., and that's kind of what it is. And so what I realized it's like, okay, these people, they don't really care about me as a person. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't maybe some of the people do, but they want good T.V., and they want to find somebody who's going to sell to this audience, and it's going to like make it this really exciting season, and they want a good story. And I totally understand all that. That is like the formula for reality television, right? And I'm not reality television exists. People watch it. Yeah, that's just is what it is. But when you mix that with music, musicians are very sensitive people. Yes, it can be really damaging. Like, I definitely had post-traumatic stress when I got home from that show as much support and love as I had from my community and the amazing memories that I did make on the show. It was brutal. Yeah.
Valerie
I don't think that's the side that people often see. And I appreciate you talking about it because I think it's, that's what it is. It is reality television. And if you think it's about music I, I got started in this business because I love music. And when the music business side made itself known to me, it was like, Whoa, I didn't, I didn't know it was about this. And if somebody had just told me about it, maybe before I started, I would have been able to sort of protect myself a little bit more, I think, but, you know.
Haley
But I don't think it has to be that way. I think you can create a career for yourself with you know, surround yourself with people that you trust and who love you and believe in you. And you can totally go the route of working with sneaky people who just want to steal your money. That happens. But you know, I think like today, you can form a career with people that truly want to help you. Very good. Great. Yeah. And there might be some sharks along the way that want to get something out of you. But you kind of just have to be intuitive to that and have a backbone also and stand up for yourself. And I've had to do that a lot.
Valerie
Yeah. And it was actually worked out great that you were working with Meredith because it sounds like she really helped you strengthen that backbone.
Haley
Yeah, definitely.
Valerie
So when asked what the most important lesson was from being on the show, you said that American Idol challenged you to break out of your comfort zone and believe in yourself, quote, in every anxiety-ridden moment, despite your voices of doubt, that you wouldn't be who you are today without the show. And that you're glad you made it to where you did, and not any further. And that made me really curious. How come you're glad you didn't make it any further on the show?
Haley
Well, to be honest, I don't think I was ready. I don't I was ready to even go on the show. That's not to say I regret it. But as a seasoned musician, performer, I was not that. And I think a lot of people that can kind of walk away unscathed or can do really well have been doing this for a long time. They're not just leaving their college dorm and jumping on stage like I really didn't have any experience. So I was able to kind of get this sort of heightened rush of exposure really quickly, which became the thing that launched me into wanting to do it allowed me to come home and have the space to figure out how I wanted to do it on my own terms, and I feel like I wouldn't have known how to say no to things. If I had won the show. I might have been twisted and formed into something I didn't know that I didn't want to be. I mean, who knows what could have happened, but I feel like I learned a lot, and I made it far enough to get something out. Have it but not let it destroy some of my life, I guess.
Valerie
So maybe it would be fair to say that you felt like you were unformed, and you're glad that it wasn't getting further on in American Idol that formed you, as a musician, you got to come back to Portland and reform yourself and almost start from scratch. Is that right?
Haley
I would say I would say so. Yeah. And I wanted to, you know, it was the first time in my life that I was like, I love music. I want to do this. I want to play guitar, I want to sing on write songs I want to perform, I want to play with musicians. I want to be with the cool musicians. That's when I finally kind of realized where I belonged all along. My life. I kind of never really felt like I fit in anywhere. I was nice and sweet and cute. And I had friends, and I fit in, I guess. But I feel like I fit in in the background as kind of the social butterfly who was quiet and I did gymnastics, which was a big part of my life, but I didn't put myself out there. And I have been able to with music.
Valerie
So this gave you an opportunity to find a part of yourself that you hadn't really explored before.
Haley Oh, yeah, yeah. Big time.
Valerie
Yeah. So you came back to Portland. What did you do next? And why? How did you begin again?
Haley
When I first got home? I was pretty distraught. I had a boyfriend at the time. So, of course, oh, somebody did hold me.
Valerie
Nice. That's helpful.
Haley
Yeah. But um, no, I started to go into my parent's shed; they have a big back shed in their yard. And I set up a little studio in there. I started to write songs every day like Meredith told me to. She had a very strict schedule for me, even after the idol thing, and I was demoing out songs on GarageBand. In fact, this is in 2012. I still have all the same gear that I was demoing songs at eight years ago.
Valerie
Time to upgrade, right?
Haley
Really badly, I need to upgrade my gear! But um, but yeah, I was just spending many hours a day trying to figure out how the heck to do this music thing and learning covers and I wasn't really huge on social media at that time, you know, Instagram was just coming out was all about Twitter, and I didn't focus too much on building a YouTube channel or doing any of that I was just like, okay, I just wanted to start making as many songs as possible, and then choose the best ones and then put them out. And so that's kind of what I did. I worked part-time and lived with my parents for three years. I wrote 200 songs. Then in 2014, I was like, Okay, I'm going to start making a record.
Valerie
A lot of singers would just want to record right away and wouldn't care if they were writing their own songs or not. What got you into songwriting? Why was that something that came up?
Haley
I think, in a way, I guess there was a little bit of element of pride in me being like, I want to be able to do both. All of a sudden, I had this newfound desire to challenge myself again. And I don't like being told I can't do something. And I did have a lot of people in my life really wanting me to go back and move to L.A. and start working on like pop music and sing other people's songs and
Valerie
try to get a record deal or, you know, that kind of thing.
Haley
Yeah, and ride the wave of the American Idol exposure. And I was like, y'all, I'm not ready to do that. Like, I need to come home, and I don't want people to write songs for me. I wanna learn how to write, and I know it's gonna be hard, Meredith, even she was like, Haley. Okay, well, if you're gonna do this, you know, I'll support you. But in a way, everyone was like, you're making a big mistake, not just going to L.A. and trying to do pop music or whatever. And so I stuck to my guns, and she was like, you're gonna live with your parents for three years if you're gonna do this, and that's exactly what happened. But I'm so happy that I did that because songwriting is one of the most frustrating and amazing things.
Valerie
And, you know, one thing people don't realize is that in the long run, the people who write the songs are actually the ones who make money. If the song does well. I mean, you can make some money touring. You can make some money as the artist recording, but the songwriter is actually who ends up making the money. But obviously, that wasn't your motivation.
Haley Right.
Valerie
But it still is nice because you own that song. And you can do with it what you want.
Haley Yeah, exactly. And I hadn't really shared any of my writing with anybody before. Like I had only started dabbling with songs about a year before that. Because I was in this recording class in college and just decided to try to record some of my own stuff. So once I had these seven songs that I was sort of throwing back and forth between my then producer and Meredith, they kind of were like, these are the songs like these are the ones that we need to get into the studio and have a record. I can't remember if I'd shared any of the rough demos with my parents. But what They heard the fully produced album, they were like, holy shit, I cannot believe it, Haley, I'm so sorry ever doubted you. And I'm not. I don't say that to be like, I was writing the best songs in the world. But for me, somebody who had never shared that side of my soul, it was pretty surprising for them to hear all that. And it was surprising for me too.
Valerie
Well, and after living in your parent's backyard and working there on these songs for all that time, I bet it felt really good to have them accept and really see you and all the hard work that you had done. Because, yeah, coming off of American Idol, there's a lot of expectation. If you make it up into the top 24 like you did, people are going to be pressuring.
Haley
Yeah, I think at that time, I kind of felt like you know, it's now or never. I was 23 years old. I already felt like I was behind, and I tried my hardest not to compare myself to other people who I saw they were much farther ahead than I was at a much younger age. I was just like, you know what, this timing for a reason. And there's a reason why I want to do it.
Valerie
And you did.
Haley Yeah.
Valerie
Yeah. So you made the record. And it came out in 2014. Is that right?
Haley
The album I released in 2015. It's called Through The Blue. And it's a little bit of a breakup record and sort of just a meandering, emotional record, very epic ballads. And yeah, big, big songs, and really well produced by Rob Daker, a pop producer in town. And when I was making the record, I was like, Well, if I want to do like a show for this, I can't just play by myself. I got to have a band. And so I started piecing together a band of just kind of random musicians that I had heard about word of mouth in town and found this amazing group of men that became like my brothers and my biggest supporters, and they loved my music, and we all got along super well, and about a week before I really show At the Aladdin theater, I had to fire my drummer.
Valerie
Oh no
Haley
Who... I was having a really hard time getting a drummer to stick around? Because, yeah, anyway drummers. Whatever. Oh my god, this is the most stressful thing in my life. I have my big huge debut album release show, and I don't have a drummer. And my dad, who had been sitting in the garage, obsessively listening to my album over and over again was like, Well, I know your songs.
Valerie
I love that.
Haley And at this time, you know, I can't remember if he had been gigging that much. I think he started to slow down as gigging over the years due to some back problems. So he had kind of taken some time off, and I was like, are you sure you can do this? He's like, Yeah, no, it'll be great. And we had a few rehearsals with him, and he totally nailed it. I was like, oh my god. Why have you been my drummer the whole time, but he's like, that's fantastic. So that was such a special night to have them up there playing my release show. I'm so pissed. I didn't film that show.
Valerie
Oh, the good ones. They always get away, I swear.
Haley I know. Now it's just a memory, but it meant a lot to have my dad up there.
Valerie
I bet that was fantastic.
Haley A very full-circle moment.
Valerie
Yeah, no kidding. Your whole life has got this full circle moment kind of stuff going on. And it's so interesting the trajectory from leaving your dorm room, going to American Idol, getting really far on that show and then coming home and living in a backyard for three years. And then recording instead of putting a band together and then recording you did the music first and then put the band together. I think that's also a really interesting choice. Because some people — they write songs and they work them out on stage, and then they record. How come you didn't do it that way?
Haley
I didn't work up the nerve to start putting a band together because I hadn't really met that many people in Portland, and I just didn't know how I didn't know how to ask people. Hey, you play my songs. And I had the opportunity to make a record with Rob in a house. Somebody who was willing to help me pay for it. So I was just excited. I was like, I want to get into the studio, I have no idea what I want these songs to sound like. All I have is this shitty acoustic guitar demo scratch track. And I need somebody to help me figure out what the songs can sound like. And it's crazy, like when you've never worked with a producer before, and you go in with your little song, and then you come back a couple days later, and all of a sudden, it's like this frickin huge theatrical orchestra. It was crazy. And so I was like, Oh, my God, I would have never thought of producing it this way. But it was awesome. And so I felt, I guess, more confident to show people what I already had and be like, hey, let's learn these songs and how they're produced right and try to make the live show sound like the record as best we can. Because, yeah, in essence, I didn't know how to be a bandleader. Right and tell people what I want.
Valerie
That's a whole other skill set. Right?
Haley
Yeah. I still don't know how to be a great bandleader.
Valerie
How did you find the producer that you worked with?
Haley
Rob was a friend of Meredith. And she was like, This is the producer I think you should work with. And so I said, Okay.
Valerie
It sounds like the kind of through-line through a lot of your story is this group of people around you that started with Meredith as your mentor. And through her, a lot of things happened. Is there any kind of advice that you would give to other singers who are trying to put together a team? How to find a mentor, how to find producers, or even a manager? How do you find these people to help you?
Haley
I honestly don't have an answer. Everything that's happened to my life has just been weird connections, serendipitous things, and then saying yes, I think a big part of it is just being open and asking for help. Networking. I think the beginning I had a lot of people wanting to help me, which was good, and that led me to connecting with more people who wanted to help me. When you help others, they want to help you, and I feel like you're going to do music and you want to succeed at it, you have to meet people, and you have to share what you're doing. And you have to ask questions, you have to give answers. You have to just it's kind of this back and forth of constantly learning from each other. And it's in those situations that you find the people that end up kind of being in your world and helping you out or you help them out. So yeah, there's just not like, here's how you do this. And here's how you do that, right? There is no point A to point B, that's for sure. Everybody's journey is gonna look different. That's just my story is that yours might look completely different.
Valerie
So you released Through The Blue in 2015. And then you made another record after that, what was the name of that record? And when was it released?
Haley
So this was an E.P. that I titled When You Lit The Sky, and that was released in 2017. Two years after my first one. I actually think I had released a single in between there too. It was called Feel The Water, which kind of comes back into my life later. Now. I re-recorded it. Anyway, this E.P. was a couple songs that I actually did end up producing with my house-band that I played with quite a bit around town. Yeah, that was a whole different experience too. It wasn't a pop record, it was very much like a live-sounding record with not so crazy production. I learned a lot in that process. It's not one of my favorite records, just because I feel like we played everything a little bit slow. Some of the songs sort of lost their magic. I like the demos better than their record.
Valerie Day
I hate it when that happens. Dang, it. I know. Sometimes the magic gets squeezed right out of it.
Haley
I know.
Valerie
Sometimes it gets more magical. You just never know what you're going to get.
Haley
Yeah, so that was 2017. And I think at that point, I think before that release, I had taken my band on a really short tour through California and an Oregon, I think, between 2016 until now, I'd started doing a bunch of little runs, you know, no major, big tours just kind of ones I put together. But I think the biggest one I went on in 2017 was with this band called The Wind And The Wave. And they were much bigger than I was. And they asked me to come on as a solo act and open for them. And they were playing decently sized venues around the U.S., they play, you know, like Mississippi studios sizes. And to me that was like, holy crap, this is a big deal. I'm used to playing like tiny, tiny little bars, and they had a couple hundred people at every show. And it was about a five or four-week tour. And me and a couple friends of mine drove around the United States with me kind of was a very DIY, I was just kind of falling around this more successful band and meeting them at the venues.
Valerie
Wow. So you didn't have an agent for that tour. That just kind of was also another Kismet thing where you met the band through friends or something?
Haley
No, that was actually around the time that I met my now manager, he still is managing that band, The Wind And The Wave. And so he connected us They're from Austin, Texas. Yeah. So once again, that was just, you know, my manager saw me sing one song at a show that I played at with a friend that he was managing. And he was blown away, and just kind of came up to me and was like, I want to help you. And I was like, Who are you crazy, man.
Valerie
I know, you never know when people say stuff like that, whether they're just coming on to ya, or they actually have the skills to back up asking you that. Yeah, or saying, Yeah, I can help you with your career. Oh, sure, buddy. But it turns out he did.
Haley
Yeah, no. And he and he definitely has, and I'm super grateful for him and everything he's helped me with since then. And I've learned a lot and gotten a lot of amazing opportunities that I never would have had on my own.
Valerie
Including a European tour recently, right?
Haley
Yeah, I've been on two European tours. And that's actually through booking agency here in Portland that I got connected with called ROLO Music.
Valerie
So did you go to them and say, hey, I want to do a tour.
Haley
I did. I actually had heard about people in Portland doing this tour? I was like, Damn, that sounds cool. And I would reach out to my friends who had done it and be like, So how was it? And they would tell me all the positives and negatives and how much it costs.
Valerie
Oh, that's great.
Haley
And so I emailed the guy, the first time with my E.P. When You Lit The Sky. I was like, Okay, this is what I got. What do you think? And he's like, Yeah, your voice is great, but I don't think your songs are there. I don't think you're ready. I was like, What? I was like, Ouch, damn, that hurts. So yeah, I got turned down the first time I asked. But then I came back with a couple singles I'd put out in 2018. And he's like, Okay, well, I think you're ready for your first tour. The songs are great. And I paid a lot of money and had them book me a four-week tour.
Valerie
So wait a minute, you pay them, and then you go on tour and hopefully make the money back.
Haley
Yeah, you pay them a booking fee, and a Promotion fee so that they'll promote all your shows over there. Okay, yeah. Because if you're going to Europe, and no one's heard you and no one's talking about you, no one's putting you in the paper. Nobody's...
Valerie
Right. They have a lot of work to do promotion wise to make it work.
Haley
Right. And so I was completely surprised when I showed up. And almost every one of my shows, big and small, was packed. People came out to see me, and they bought my merch. I was completely blown away that all these people who had never heard of me in their life took a risk because they maybe saw a YouTube video that was posted or, you know, heard a song on whatever and or the radio and wanted to check me out. And since my second tour, which was even more successful, and you know, I've made some, I think, lifelong fans over in Germany, Austria, Denmark, Switzerland, and the Netherlands.
Valerie
That's incredible. Did you break even, or did you make money?
Haley
I broke even last year. I made money this year. And I will say, though, you know, the reason why I made money is because I took eight days off in six weeks, I did not rest. In order to make a profit on that tour, you have to work, you have to be constantly playing. Because you want to make it worth your time being over there because the car rental costs so much. And because you're driving everywhere, and there's so many expenses that come up with that tour. And it's a really hard, complicated tour. But it is so amazing and so much fun. And I just am so grateful that I've gotten to meet those people and make those fans because they are like some of the sweetest people. I'm like, Oh my gosh, you actually appreciate me. My U.S. fans don't. It's just initially I think that the U.S. is a little harder to impress.
Valerie
Yes.
Haley I don't know why. But...
Valerie
How wonderful that you had that opportunity not once but twice. So, you've done an amazing job with content creation, besides all of the music you've recorded, you've made some beautiful videos, they're really well done. Can you share with us how you go about making those?
Haley
That's just kind of another word of mouth thing. I feel like social media, Instagram has been a great place to sort of scout people that you want to work with, in your area or beyond. So when, whenever I would see a video that I liked, I'd be like, okay, who made this — reach out to them. So yeah, it's just kind of like checking out who people are working with and what they're making.
Valerie
And that maybe is another great thing to say about finding mentors and finding managers and finding anyone who producers that you hear a record and you go, I wonder how they made that record, and then you find out and then you can make a connection, perhaps, or at least reach out to that person and see if they're interested in helping you.
Haley
I think that you should always ask even if you're unsure or like nervous to ask for something, you know, some of my greatest things came from asking somebody to do something that I was like so afraid to reach out to. Cause I'm like, they're gonna say no. They don't like me. And then they say yes. And I'm like, and then we make this amazing thing together.
Valerie
That's so cool. And you do have a remarkable voice, Haley.
Haley
Thank you. And so do you, Valerie.
Valerie
Thank you. The word remarkable means that people actually, you do something well enough that people will remark about it, right? I think Seth Godin said that or somebody like that. Anyway, I'm just like, yep, remarkable voice there. So when people hear it, they want to help you because you've got some chops and you have done a lot of work with your voice, which brings us to practicing. So what does practicing look like for you, and what do you do to stay motivated?
Haley
I always want to be creating something. I always want to be working towards something, and there's a lot of things as a musician, singer-songwriter who is independent in the world. of social media. I mean, there's a million things you could be doing all the time. It's actually incredibly overwhelming, yes, to try to keep up with everything. And I get stuck in this whole loophole of just like, I'm not good enough. I don't have the time. I don't have the energy. I don't have the resources I don't have the gear can't do this. And so I find that when I make a really specific schedule for myself kind of mapping out, okay, what's the priority? What is not? Like what can I wait on? And I'm not great at this all the time. But when I do it, I'm like, Wow, good job.
Valerie
Now you can look at the list and go, Okay, I know what's important. What do I focus on first? Is that kind of how you do it?
Haley
Yeah. What do I focus on first? How much time do I allow myself to do it? Don't be unrealistic. I feel like the worst thing that you can do as you know, a self-employed independent musician who wants to go anywhere is to get up, you know, not set your alarm, not set a schedule for your day. Just be like, I'm just gonna like jam, and see what happens and like, blah, blah, blah. No, I, you're not gonna do anything, at least for me, that doesn't work for me, and some people can do that. But for me, you know, I have to be pretty strict with myself if I want to put my mind to something. And I have a time for social media. You know, schedule out time for that. I have to make time to just, you know, sometimes I don't want to have to make something for social media, or I don't want to have to make something for a song I just want to jam out and just be in my studio and play guitar for nothing just for fun. Like, you have to make time for that. And like I literally will schedule that in. And sometimes I just, you know, want to at the end of the night. And then songwriting, you know, that's another thing that you have to sit your butt in the chair and just do. I feel like a lot of times, I rely on inspiration to just kind of pop up and guide me there. But you have to make space for everything that you want to be, I guess good at in music and in the music business.
Valerie
It's so easy for these things to completely get away from you. Before you know it, you haven't practiced for three days or a week or whatever, because there's all these tyranny of the urgent kind of things that are demanding your attention. But yeah, it's so important to make time even to have space in your calendar for just like, okay, now I'm just gonna mess about because I put time on my calendar to just do whatever the heck I want instead of being focused on a particular thing because that's also super important. Do you practice for half an hour? Do you do an hour a day when you're focused in that way?
Haley
Practicing for me is rehearsing for a show. Or it is maybe learning a new cover song that I want to perform or put online or something. It's got to be for something or else you know, you can sit around and practice your scales all day, or just warm up your voice for an hour, but you want it to be working towards something like when I learned how to play bass for this artist, I enjoy called Big Wild. I learned how to play bass in a month while I was on the road in Europe because I wanted it so bad. And I had four weeks to learn four songs having never played the bass in my life.
Valerie
Haley, you go, girl.
Haley
And you know, I love playing bass, but it's because I had this weird pressure. I'm about to go on tour and play for thousands of people every night. I better get this down.
Valerie
Yeah, that's awesome. Well, that brings us back round to now and this crazy pandemic time. How are you making it through when your livelihood is dependent on live shows? How are you surviving?
Haley
Well, I have some amazing fans. And I have held two virtual shows now and asked people to donate if they'd like, and people have been very gracious in donating to my time to put on a show for them. They have gone to my website and bought my merch. And, you know, that's definitely not enough. It's not going to pay my bills for the next however many months we're in this, but for now, you know, it's so amazing that we have these tools. And I feel really grateful that I have fans who do want to help me out and appreciate me in that way and appreciate my music. I am also teaching some virtual lessons online, some voice lessons. So a couple students there. Yeah, I'm just kind of trying to be really frugal with my spending.
Valerie
Yeah, you released a new album, The London sessions, on March 23. And you recorded that record at Abbey Road. When I saw that you were releasing a record on March 23. Like the week that our state Oregon went into lockdown. I was just thinking, oh my god, I feel for you, Haley cuz after all that work and you get the product made, and you're ready to put the music out there for people, and then, Wham all the gigs that you had to promote the record are gone. I mean, you can't go anywhere. So yes, there are live streaming platforms, but they can never replace live shows. What do you find that's positive about live-streaming your shows right now?
Haley
It's forcing musicians to get creative. And it's forcing them to figure out how to convey emotion to an audience. And I feel like so many people are stuck at home and bored and maybe sick of Netflix, and they still crave that sense of connection by just simply being like, oh, I'm here. And they're literally doing this right now. I can message them and say hi, and they might say hi back. And there is this kind of cool virtual reality aspect to it where we're all every musician is at home, trying to do their damnedest to make their live-stream as best quality as they can. And that is something I will say that's been very difficult for me.
Valerie
I know it's not easy, right? I mean, being the musician that's supposed to be performing in these things, and then also trying to deal with Okay, is my mic working right? And do I have it plugged into the computer correctly? And are we on? You know, it's hard to be the engineer, the audio tech, and the musician. I mean, you have to do everything. It's like a one-woman band.
Haley
Yeah. And I, you know, I kind of already am a one-woman band.
Valerie
Yes, you are. You employ tambourine with your foot. I love that.
Haley I don't know, it's kind of one of those things where Yeah, it's frustrating. But it's a fun challenge. And when you do get things looking and sounding good. You're like, Yeah, I did it, and you feel like it's all it's worth it. And for the fans, I feel like they really appreciate it. They appreciate the effort that goes into it. I hope that they still feel a connection to music and... Nothing is going to compare to a live show, though. You know, it just doesn't. And the thing I love most about live shows is just meeting the people afterward, getting to finally be face to face with the people I just bared my soul to. Just that kind of moment of, at least when I'm touring solo, is really having to be present with myself and calm. And tell stories, and I've never really been great at that until I was forced to be on my own on stage, and it's taught me a lot. I would have never thought my whole life I'd be talking in front of people and in singing and doing all this, so it's broken me out of my shell. And I still get nervous on live streams. I'm like, Oh my god. People are still here watching me. It's almost like more nerve-wracking because you're like, Okay, now I can't hear them react, you know, I can laugh, clap up or like, you know, whenever people laugh at me, I'm like, okay, they love me. They're enjoying the show.
Valerie
Right? You kind of have to imagine that whole part, and that's not easy to do. Have you found new ways to interact with your fans and followers on social media through this time? Or are you deepening your understanding of Tik Tok? And I saw your thing that you posted the other day from there. It was hilarious by the way where you're like the psychologist talking to yourself on the couch.
Haley
Every now and again, I get bursts of creativity and energy to do things like that. But I definitely don't make it too big a part of my life because it's just exhausting to keep up with all those things.
Valerie
It takes a lot of time too.
Haley
Yeah, but you know, something that I've tried lately I'm trying to reverse my mind with is I feel like social media in such a way is this weird ego trip. And there's a lot of narcissism involved with it. And like, you don't really know what's happened to you until you're like, why is no one liking my photo?
Valerie
Right again, which is why I love the Tik Tok piece because it was kind of all about that.
Haley
Yeah, and I'm totally guilty of that, you know, the numbers game. And it can be really, like, emotionally exhausting, and spiritually exhausting, and all those things to try to keep up with social media. And I, I'm trying to view it now as, Okay, what can I give my fans? Because, really, it is about me, but it's also about them. What do they want? What do they want to hear? What can I offer them right now? Yeah, rather than just posting to post and not have it mean anything, you know?
Valerie
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And because it's all we have right now, it's important as musicians to wrap our heads around. How can I make this an offering? Instead of just something that I'm posting, because I'm looking for numbers, and I want people to like me. You know?
Haley
So there's been days where I'm like, I don't want to touch my guitar. I don't want to sing. I at first was like, come on, Haley! Buck up! Why are you feeling so lazy? Oh, we're going through a global pandemic.
Valerie
Yeah. Give myself a break!
Haley
Right? Like, let yourself even if you don't realize your body and your mind are processing things, you're trying to just pretend like everything's normal and you're going on with your life. And suddenly you're just like, why can't I do things? Because you're fighting it, you're fighting your body. And just the other day, I was being such a bitch to my fiance. I was just being really snappy and just felt angry. And, and then I just spent two hours bawling on the floor, just letting myself cry and cry and cry. And I just had all this pent up energy of, that I had to just release. And it took a day or two for me to kind of snap out of and be like, Whoa, okay, I feel like I kind of got a restart.
Valerie
That's so good that you actually landed on the floor like that and let that happen. I read something really interesting about some people reacting with doing, and that's totally fine. And you know, I mean, doing gets people through too. You know, there's the people that get out there and start making lists, and they start working on stuff, and they're taking all the online courses, and they're doing all this stuff. And then there's the feelers who are just kind of lost in the soup of the whole world doing this thing that's never happened in our lifetimes. You know, the last pandemic was in the last century, and more than 100 years ago. So I think musicians, most of us singers especially, would probably find ourselves in the feeling camp, where that kind of overwhelm is important to process. You know? Otherwise, it'll just overtake you and, and there's nowhere for it to go. I also read a really important study about tears. And I don't know if you have ever heard of this, but emotional tears and tears that you cry when you're cutting an onion have different chemical compositions. So they did this study where they took a group of people, they showed them a really emotional movie, and they caught their tears, and then they analyzed what chemicals were in the tears. And then they had the same group of people chop up a bunch of onions, and they caught their tears from the onion tears, and they figured out what the chemical composition was for those. And they looked at both types of tears and realized that they were different. And the emotional tears release cortisol. And cortisol, for people who don't know, is a stress hormone, and it's what you need to release when you're under stress. So, two hours of releasing that cortisol that otherwise would go into your body and cause other problems — that's good for you. So, yeah.
Haley
I love that. Thank you for telling me that. That's super cool.
Valerie
We talked earlier about how you were making it through financially, and we shared some information that we'd found on the internet about resources for musicians. Have you been able to take advantage of any of those resources that are out there right now for grants or anything like that?
Haley
I have a little bit. I have been trying to keep up with all the emails and things people have been sending me. I feel like it's a lot and to sit down and do all the applications. It takes quite a bit of time and energy. I did apply for the Music Cares Act through the Grammy organization. I did that in the very beginning. And I've just kind of been seeing a couple more big ones trickle through and I'm so happy that there are people who are trying to help struggling artists right now. I think it's amazing. I actually did just also apply for unemployment. So we'll see what happens there.But there's so many websites. So one thing I'll tell you about is music Portland.
Valerie
Yes. Music. Portland is a great organization. They've done some amazing work lately.
Haley
Yeah. And they on their website, they have a list of a bunch of different things that you can apply for and just advice on live streaming. And...
Valerie
Oh, that's great. If you could send me the link. I will put it in the show notes for this episode.
Haley
If you're with either BMI or ASCAP, those are the music publishing companies, I know that if you sign up to their newsletter, I get emails almost every day of them offering resources and articles about how to get some help during this time. I found one you're familiar with Sound Exchange? Oh, yeah.
Valerie
Performing Rights Organization. And whether you get money from Sound Exchange or not, they have a fabulous resources page for music creators during the Coronavirus. And it is one of the most complete resource pages that I've seen, along with the Jeremy Wilson Foundation, also has a great resources page on their website. And I'll put links to both of those organizations and the pages to go to in this episode.
Haley
I do want to say I, the Jeremy Wilson foundation Relief Fund did and today the application period. I feel like an idiot because I missed it. I even like did a video to help raise money for it. So I feel dumb, but I hope that people who are really in need of money, get the money that they need.
Valerie
And maybe there'll be more money given to the Foundation so that they can do it again later. Because this is gonna keep going for a while. So we're going to need more resources, I think. The thing that Jeremy Wilson said in an interview that I saw him give was that there are resources out there, but they're not easy to get and that you really have to dedicate a full day like eight hours or more to like looking at all the different resources and seeing which ones are might fit for your situation and then applying and I have a lot of friends who are struggling. And I'm telling them like your eyes for this, like, have you done this? And yeah, and that's another way I think we can help each other is to say, Hey, I was able to get this to happen, or I was able to get this money from this source, and I think letting other people know that it's really helpful and appropriate, actually at this point. Because there are so many different ways to go. It's overwhelming. It's not an easy time. It's really not as your time, so I appreciate you sharing what you have found that so far, and would love to hear more about what works for you. If you want to let, me know. You know, yeah, moving forward.
Haley Yeah, totally.
Valerie
So I have one question from somebody on Facebook that wanted to know if you think Portland is a good place for artists to start and develop a music career.
Haley
I feel like for me, it's been a great place. I built and found an amazing community. For me, it's been a great place to grow. The industry here maybe isn't as big and booming as it might be elsewhere. But I have never felt like I have to move to any of those places. Like I never felt like, okay, I want to make it I got to move to Nashville, or I got to move to L.A. Of course, maybe I would meet some amazing people and get some opportunities. But I've always just kind of have the idea of well, I can always just visit there.
Valerie
It's never been easy. The gatekeepers are different nowadays. And the great news is that there are fewer of them, but there's also more people doing it. So
Haley
Yeah. It's saturated. Absolutely. And there are days where I'm just like, Man, I've been hustling at this now for eight years. How much longer can I go at this rate of growth? Like, am I going to burn out? Am I still going to enjoy it? Like when, when is it going to be enough? When will I have quote-unquote made it? And for me, there are people, and I don't say this to toot my own horn, but there are people who have told me like, In my eyes, Haley You've made it. And I'm like, really? And then I look back at where I came from, and how I've grown, and I'm like, Damn. I guess in a way I have. If you look at it as though you're always making it like you're always improving something, you're always doing something you didn't think you could do, then you've made it. Just because you're not charting, and just because you're not touring stadiums, yes, that is maybe like the top of making it, but I just always like to have the mindset of, am I challenging myself to do better? And am I still enjoying it? That's, that's what success is to me. You know, you have to honestly just love it. And you have to love the struggle, and you can't be attached to this idea of just being discovered or it happening overnight. Because, you know, you can get that quick fame, and that quick attention, and then guess what? It's gonna be gone — real quick.
Valerie
Nothing lasts forever.
Haley
There's an old story in the Bible or something, or you like building your house out of rocks or sand. You have to have a foundation and a discipline, and a love for this.
Valerie
And when you're building that musical Foundation, you're also building a life foundation. Because all of the things that you've talked about today about focus, and the love that you have to have for what you're doing and organizing yourself and your time, those are all things you need for life, right? So no matter what happens next, you've, you've honed a bunch of skills that are going to help you in whatever happens next.
Haley
Yeah, exactly. I think that's worth more than 100,000 streams. Maybe.
Valerie
No kidding.So last question. What would you say to a younger version of yourself if you could go back to a time when she might not have been feeling like it was all worth it?
Haley
I would say, Man, just stick with it. Stop doubting yourself and just remember why you love doing it in the first place. And don't compare yourself to people. Which is the hardest thing.
Valerie
Awesome. It's been so lovely to talk to with you, Haley, I could talk to you all night. We have so many more things to talk about. So I hope it's I hope I'm doing this podcast for a long time and that I get to circle back around and see how you're doing in a few years and please, you know until then, don't be a stranger.
Haley
I know I won't. I'm so grateful that you asked me to do this, and I was really one of my favorite conversations in podcasts. So it is an honor.
Valerie
Thanks.
That’s it for this episode of Living A Vocal Life. To find out more about Haley and listen to her music, head on over to haleyjohnsenmusic.com. (That’s Johnsen spelled with an e.) Or my website valeriedaysings.com. You can find complete show notes and a transcription of this episode there. I’d also love to hear from you. So please let me know what you found useful in this conversation and what you’d like to hear more of in episodes to come, right there on my website. If you like what you’ve heard, consider sharing with a friend. You can also subscribe on iTunes or wherever you go for podcasts. Better yet, leave a review so other singers will find it. Before I sign off I’d like to tell you about a project I’ve been working on that you might be interested in. It’s an online course I’ll be launching on April 6th 2020 called Becoming A Singer. Booming A Singer is the course I would have loved to have had when I started my journey. It’s also the course I wish I’d had to give my students during the 20 years I taught in my private studio. Whether you’re just getting started or could use some guidance on your journey, Becoming A Singer will prepare you to step out on stage with confidence and purpose. If you’re being called to make a life in music, head to my website at valeriedaysings.com to find out more. Until next time, be well, keep singing, and thanks for listening!