Episode #23 Stephanie Schneiderman Singer-Songwriter
Welcome to Living A Vocal Life: A Podcast For Singers!
Welcome to the Living A Vocal Life Podcast, where I interview singers who have succeeded in creating a life in music. You’ll hear from vocalists of all genres, in different stages of their careers, including singers who’ve been on the Billboard charts and those who are teaching the next generation. What do they have in common? They're all performers with amazing stories to tell and experiences to share.
In our conversations, you’ll learn what inspired them to become a singer, the kinds of challenges they’ve encountered, and how they've overcome them. I'll also share what I've learned on my own journey as a singer and educator — practical tools and insights that will help you to live your best, most authentic vocal life.
Listen below here on my website or wherever you go for podcasts:
This month’s guest on Living A Vocal Life is singer-songwriter, Stephanie Schneiderman.
Blending elements of folk, indie pop music, Americana, and electronic music, Stephanie’s songwriting is often compared to artists like Imogen Heap, Regina Spektor, and Jem. As a singer-songwriter, her solo career began with a coveted spot at the Lilith Fair. From there, she went on to receive extensive NW radio airplay, tour internationally, and earn music placements in numerous films and primetime TV shows. She’s played with some of the nation’s top touring acts- from Aimee Mann to Hall & Oates, Heart, and Train- and enjoyed ongoing success with popular NW all-female groups Dirty Martini and Swan Sovereign. She’s performed in the musical The Full Monty, appeared in major television commercials and films and produced a successful humanitarian concert series, Voices For Silent Disasters, that raised more than $70,000 for refugees in Northern Uganda.
Stephanie’s released nine solo albums. Her most recent, Crossfire, has her stepping into the role of producer for the first time.
I’ve known Stephanie so long I can’t even remember when or where we met! But what is embedded in my memories of Stephanie are our conversations — they’re always wide-ranging, inspiring, and fun. In this one, we talk about her career trajectory, her new album, what it’s like to stand up for yourself in difficult situations, and the joys and challenges of combining a creative career with parenting. We also dive into some deeper waters — and talk about why coming to terms with failure in one’s creativity and career is essential to living one’s life as an artist.
“It’s okay to take up space, it’s okay to get big, to be fully you. ”
Links:
You can find Stephanie on Facebook, Instagram, Spotify, or Twitter.
The songs from today’s episode are from the album Crossfire (used with permission.) To listen or download, go HERE.
The book mentioned in this episode about the voices in are heads is called Chatter: The Voice In Our Head, Why It Matters, and How To Harness It by Ethan Cross.
Theme music for the Podcast was composed by John Smith. He helps me edit all the podcast episodes too. (Thanks honey!)
Stephanie and her husband, Tony Furtado, perform from their living room with other Portland musicians to keep the music alive during the pandemic.
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Valerie: This month's guest on Living A Vocal Life is singer songwriter, Stephanie Schneiderman. Blending elements of folk indie, pop music, Americana, and electronic music, Stephanie's songwriting is often compared to artists like Imogen Heap, Regina Spektor and Jem. As a singer-songwriter, her solo career began with a coveted spot in the Lilith Fair.
From there, she went on to receive extensive Northwest radio airplay, tour internationally, and earn music placements in numerous films and primetime TV shows. She's played with some of the nation's top touring acts from Aimee Mann, to Hall & Oats, Heart, and Train, and enjoyed ongoing success with popular Northwest all female groups, Dirty Martini and Swan Sovereign.
She's performed in the musical The Full Monte, appeared in major television commercials and films, and produced a successful humanitarian concert series, Voices For Silent Disasters, that raised more than $70,000 for refugees in Northern Uganda.
Stephanie's released nine solo albums. Her most recent, Crossfire, has her stepping into the role of producer for the very first time.
I've known Stephanie for so long I can't even remember when or where we met, but what is embedded in my memories of Stephanie are our conversations. They're always wide ranging, inspiring and fun. In this one, we talk about her career trajectory, her new album, what it's like to stand up for yourself in difficult situations, and the joys and challenges of combining a creative career with parenting. We also dive into some deeper waters and talk about why coming to terms with failure in one's creativity and career is essential to living one's life as an artist.
So hi, Stephanie.
Stephanie: Hello!
Valerie: Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
Stephanie: Oh, It's such an honor. I'm so happy to be here.
Valerie: I'm going to start with a question that I ask everyone on the podcast. What's your first memory of singing.
Growing Up
Stephanie: Oh boy, what a good question. I grew up in a family of three girls, I'm the youngest. And my two older sisters, they introduced me to singing we forced our parents to be the audience. We made these performance nights with tickets. And a lot of times they just had stuff to do and we were just like, this show is going to start!
Um, I have this memory when my great grandmother had just passed away and we were at my grandmother's house, my other grandmother's house for dinner. And we were once again, getting ready to do a show. And I was very little, but I do remember there were like hats and canes involved with this show. And my mom was crying because my, her grandmother, who she was very close with, just passed away. So it was this really important moment. And we gathered together in this teeny little bathroom in this tiny little apartment of my grandmother's and my older two sisters looked at me and they were like, the show must go on.
Valerie: Wow.
Stephanie: We have to do this show. And so we marched ourselves out of that teeny little bathroom and who knows what the show was, but it definitely involved singing and I was very little. That's one of my first memories.
Valerie: I love that. It sounds like you had a really close family growing up. Is that right?
Stephanie: Definitely. It was, chaotic in its own ways. Which I think actually shaped me in there was just, everybody was doing so many things in so many directions. And I think my safe place tended to be a little island where I would go create something by myself. And I think that's something that blossomed into songwriting where that that feeling of safety of having like an island that just belonged to me.
Cause you know, when you're youngest, you don't get to the things first, your third at them. So someone else has maybe already claimed most of the things. I don't feel negative about that. It just feels true. And so I was always trying to like find like what hasn't been done, what's mine, What could, what could possibly be my little corner.
Valerie: Songwriting was part of that.
Stephanie: I think it turned into that for sure. Yeah.
Valerie: What were the kinds of chaotic things that were going on in, in your family?
Stephanie: Just our schedule. We grew up very over-scheduled. Really. It's something that I've really tried to change, but it, boy does it like sneak its way into my life. And all of a sudden I take a look at like my book, which looks ridiculous at times. Like, why is this so, why am I so busy?
Valerie: Yeah.
Stephanie: I think that I'm sure that is it.
Valerie: It's partly the culture that we live in and it's partly the families that we grow up in I think too. My family was exactly that same way, real high achieving. And there was, you know, very little downtime. It kinda just becomes the norm for sure.
Stephanie: What's interesting about that is when I am creative, when I'm feeling inspired and creative, and I feel like I'm tapping into something that's bigger than me. It's like a song feels like it's comes from me, but it feels also separate from me.
It works really well when there's stillness around that space. And I it's like my brain needs to get a little bit bored in a good way to even access it. And so maybe that could the craziness of that, of being over-scheduled and having a really busy childhood, even though it was also really full and layered and rich and exciting. Maybe that rigor steered me into a direction of trying to create that space where I ended up writing from.
Jewish Heritage
Valerie: So what was it like growing up in a Jewish family in Portland, Oregon?
Stephanie: I mean, it was really a beautiful experience. And I think that a lot of those beautiful melodies I grew up with, that I experienced in synagogue when I went there, I think those have absolutely shaped me and my melodic sensibility as a songwriter. No question. They kind of make their way into your bones. You can't help it. And I think it's always influenced me. Um, it's interesting because as I've gotten older, I think my spirituality has changed a bit to more abstract from the more concrete place that I grew up from with Jewish ideaology.
Valerie: Was your family more secular or...
Stephanie: We were conservative, we are conservative But I think in general, my, my feelings about religion, just all religions, there's beauty, everywhere. There's also contradiction everywhere. I tend to feel like I live more in these gray area questions that make more sense to me.
Yeah.
I do feel lucky that I grew up with a beautiful heritage. I think for me, the most important part of where I came from is the lineage to my ancestors.
So when I think about the traditions of Judaism, what matters most to me, what I feel like I cherish, it feels most sacred to me is going through those rituals with my grandmothers. And that's the connection for me.
Valerie: That's a great connection to have to your heritage and to them.
Stephanie: Yes. Yes. Yes, yes.
Daughters
Valerie: There's a song on your new album that I love, that kind of speaks to what we're talking about. It's called Daughters.
Stephanie: Daughters, yeah..
Valerie: What's the story behind the song? And who's it about?
Stephanie: So my husband, Tony Furtado, and I, we live in Northeast Portland and it just so happens that we are only six blocks away from where my great grandparents first immigrated from the Ukraine. The Ukraine, the borders where they've shifted over the years, sometimes it's called Ukraine sometimes it was Russia.
And so my grandmother and her three younger brothers all grew up in this house that's only a few blocks away from here. And when I was pregnant with Liam, I would take these long walks through the neighborhood I was like the creepy neighbor that just kept passing by and looking at the house. I don't think I give off a creepy vibe, but possibly, possibly.
And so I, I would think a lot about like the walks that I would take these very same sidewalks I was walking on were the very same spots that my grandmother had her childhood. She grew up on those streets. And I think about the ways that the stories of our grandparents or ancestors might play out in our lives. So it's a story that belongs to them. It's their life story, but maybe it bleeds its way quite literally bleeding its way into us. Like a social DNA of sorts and just this idea of that.
And I was thinking about her and her life. And so I wrote the song Daughters about that. It also, I think, touches on gender and culture and this time when she was growing up, she was really bright. And she actually was accepted into Reed college. But my great-grandfather didn't really believe in women going to college, so she didn't go.
Valerie: I think about that a lot with my grandmother and great grandmothers too. They just, they did not have very many options to really fulfill any kind of potential that they had. Their lives were prescribed.
I just loved the lyrics to the song.
You go down to the well to carry the water. Chains to be held, given your daughter. Down. Heavy on my heart down. You go down to the grave to bury the fodder. Chains, to be saved. Lessons you taught her down. Heavy on my heart down. And then the chorus. Who are you to be? Who are you to not be brave? Who are you to not be bold? It's a weighted crown for a hundred years or more. You carry the light, the torch down.
And that just, I don't know. Tell me about. who's speaking in the verses and then who's speaking in the chorus. Cause it seems like the voice changes.
Stephanie: Yeah. You know how sometimes it comes out and it's sometimes hard to pinpoint like the specifics of those things. But I think when I was growing up. I think I was always taught to be very polite, very sweet. Be sweet.
Valerie: Be nice.
Stephanie: Be nice.
Valerie: Be a nice girl. Yeah.
Stephanie: And I never really had that many role models of somebody who might, so let's say somebody put me in a position where I felt uncomfortable. I definitely would not call them on it, especially if it was a male. It's most, especially then. But I definitely, I don't think I would call them on it. In fact, I'd probably go the opposite direction and try to make them feel okay for what they just did.
And so it's like, I'm going to protect you from yourself right now. Let's pretend you didn't just say that because that was weird. And I'll go like overboard. And I think that does travel down through the years because there's this, don't stand out. Protect yourself by blending in. Be sweet. Be polite. Don't call out people. Don't step out of line I guess, there's a little bit of that.
And maybe it's a protective mechanism. Maybe there's a real virtue to it at that time. I don't know. But,
Valerie: And this song, it really speaks to that push pull of the generations. I'm about, 10 years older than you are. And growing up In the seventies. I, in my teenage years, I felt like this push pull between the old way of being a woman, which was that subservient kind of thing.
And then this be everything, do it all. And be bold and be brave. And it was hard to reconcile sometimes, I felt like I was straddling two different worlds. And anything that even had a little bit of the old world in it, like I'm a homebody. I like to make my home nice. And, and I was like that's not good because that's what women have always done. And the problem is that we just need to be ourselves. Not that we need to be any particular way. And that, that took me a long time to figure out, that I wasn't just, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong all the time.
Stephanie: I relate, I totally understand that.
It's interesting because on this album. I have produced my own album before, but it was, in a live setting. So there was an album called Live At The Old Church that I recorded at the Old Church with a string section and a choir behind me. And I, technically produced that, but it's different being in the studio, producing something.
And I've worked with so many wonderful producers, including Tim Ellis. It's like the top of my list and Keith Schreiner. And this time, stepping into that role, it was hard for me to be the person that all the decisions came down to. It was like a real visceral struggle. And also exhilarating, but just, it was terrifying and then when it turned out well, it was awesome. And and it's this whole con this concept that we're talking about of being the authority, figure, being someone who is in charge and responsible, for everything as a female, but growing up in a way where that wasn't role modeled that wasn't modeled to, at least to me all that much.
Valerie: There weren't as many women leaders and there wasn't the internet, so we couldn't just go there and see some.
Stephanie: So true. I mean, and in the home, there was tons of leadership, women leadership, but of the home is different, yeah.
Valerie: Yeah. That is a, that's definitely a thing.
Let's go back a little bit before we get more into this record. I want to go back a little ways to how your career got started. All the way back to high school. You were involved in musicals and plays. You studied piano, guitar and French horn, and then you sang lead in your first band at age 18 and went on to perform with Body and Soul, one of the Northwest's premier Motown, funk, R&B bands, who also happened to have quite a few Nu Shooz alumni in it.
Stephanie: Yes!
In The Band: From French Horn to Funk Singer
Valerie: How does a French horn player end singing in a funk band?
Stephanie: That's so funny. Well, first, before Body & Soul I was in this band called High Fashion, which was spelled H I fashion like, hi fashion, hi. And we used to play in these clubs out in Gresham they would be like a five-hour gig.
So it'd be 9:00 to 9:50, the sets. 10 to 10:50, all the way to 1:50, it'd be five sets. And I remember getting $42 a night. And then after a year and a half, I asked for a raise. And Harry Billings, the owner of the band was like, I'll give you a raise cause you deserve it. And my next paycheck was $46.
Valerie: Oh, nice. Thank you so much.
Stephanie: Thanks so much. But But the the thing is I was like, happy about that. But I was too young to be in the bars. you know, It wasn't 21 and I had...
Valerie: What year was this?
Stephanie: Maybe 94, 95, something like that. And I had fake ID, which was my boyfriends older sister at the time named Jenny Burns, which great name by the way, much better than Stephanie Schneiderman.
And the bouncer would say, why do you go by Stephanie Schneiderman if your name's Jenny Burns? And I would say, oh, it's Stephanie Schneiderman is my stage name.
Valerie: I love that.
Stephanie: It's so funny to think about that. Anyway, then I got the gig with Body and Soul and I was, so ecstatic about that and I loved singing with Tarshine and Janine. I definitely felt like the greenest, the youngest in the band. Um, And I really had an incredibly steep learning curve, how to blend with two amazing singers, how to sustain my voice, which actually I got in a lot of trouble and built some bad habits of pushing and creating tension in the back of my throat to get through the gigs, it was so loud on stage.
Well, that's a horn band and there weren't in-ear monitors at that time and yeah, you ended up just having to really push hard. I get that.
The drummer was left-handed. So that was really loud on the left side I thought where we were standing. Yeah. It was loud. And I got used to singing loud all the time.
Most importantly, I just was in love with singing with Tarshine and Janine, and I learned so much from them. and it was a good stretch for me. Like it pulled me to a, I don't know, I had to listen more than sing to reach their phrasing. And I felt like I was listening 90 singing 10. And it changed me. It kinda changed my sensibility cause I was in the band for so long.
Valerie: How many years?
Stephanie: Three and a half, four years.
Valerie: Wow, that's a long time.
Stephanie: And I remember I had this period of time when um, this is kind of a hard story to tell, but it was it's fine now, but it was hard in the moment. There was a period of time that I had in the band where my hearing was feeling damaged. And I was having a really hard time locating the center of the pitch and, and it was something that was going on with my inner ears and I didn't discover exactly what the problem was, except for that I was having a really hard time singing in tune. And it was affecting, things. I started losing some of the lead songs that I had in the band slowly, like they started rolling off until, and it was, pretty painful.
Um, Cause I'm the youngest, one in the band, I was very intimidated while I was going through this, but I I didn't want to quit, but I felt like maybe there was people talking about me behind my back feeling like we can't have someone that isn't singing in tune.
We can, we ought to make a change. And so I didn't want that behind my back. I wanted it like to my face. So up calling a band meeting while we were down in Eugene at the Good Times, and no one had ever called a band meeting. So it was odd to do. I think everyone expected me to quit. And I said, I want to get this out in the open. If there's conversations about what's next and if I'm in the band or not in the band, I want to be part of the conversation. I want to have it to my face, not to my back.
Valerie: That was a brave thing to thing to do.
Stephanie: I was trying to be brave but even during the conversation my lower lip was like giving me away. I was, I was like trembling in it.
Valerie: This is a real vulnerable moment.
Stephanie: It was one of the most that I can think of that I can point to. And
Valerie: What was the reaction?
Stephanie: It was just finally some honesty about the problems that were happening.
Valerie: So how did you discover that it was a physical thing and not just you not making the note?
Stephanie: Yeah. Cause it wasn't lack of effort. So the night that we had that meeting, the band took a vote right there, right in front of me.
Valerie: Oh my God.
Stephanie: When I think back, I'm just laughing now, but it really was so painful. We took a vote. Who wants Stephanie to continue in the band and there was enough votes for me. So I stayed.
Valerie: But you knew who didn't want you in the band at the same time.
Stephanie: I did, I knew who didn't want me in the band. I did. And I don't fault them for that. They, it was a problem we weren't sure how to fix. I ended up going to see an audiologist. Basically what was happening, it was so loud in the monitors that my ears would shut down for 12 hours.
Valerie: Oh, I've had that happen before. It's scary. You were used to it happening, so you didn't even know.
Stephanie: Right. And so we protected my ears with these particular kind of ear plugs, that'll still allow the sound in. You have to get them shaped to your ear. And slowly it started to heal itself and I didn't have the same problems on stage, I started getting my songs back. And then I did leave the band cause I was focusing more on my own music. But at least I left on a high note that was like, a year and a half after that. So I, I got through it.
Valerie: You got through it and you had your self esteem more intact, hopefully.
Stephanie: Yeah, it was I think after the fact that I did feel good about facing it, facing the, the music, so to speak, like quite literally.
Valerie: Because what a confidence, catastrophe.
Stephanie: Oh, my God, totally. All the people that mattered to me the most in terms of you want them on your side. And it crumbling right before me. That was a harsh one.
Valerie: We are hardwired to be in community because it us alive. And so the possibility of being thrown out of a group that you care about,
Stephanie: Oh, my god.
Valerie: It's it goes right to the survival part of your brain. That's just amazing that you, at that young age were able to look that in the face and say, okay, I'm just going to deal here and see what happens.
Going Solo
Valerie: So you left the band and went on your own to do some songwriting and become a solo artist. And then you won grand prize in the Lilith Fair competition, which is a huge deal for a new artist. So for those who aren't familiar with the fair or the competition, can you tell us a little bit about what it was about and what getting a spot to perform on that stage was like for you.
Stephanie: Oh, it was so exciting and it kind of launched my career, I think in a lot of ways. So there was an event that happened at the Roseland The Roseland Theater, which is a really big venue in Portland, Oregon. And it was a contest. And the contest involved, I don't know I think they funneled it down. So it first started out probably hundreds of people and they funneled it down to maybe 50. And there were 50 people performing that night. And depending on the audience response, the winner would get to perform at Lilith Fair.
And the weirdest thing something happened before that show. And I want to say, this has never repeated itself ever in my whole life where I said something, I think it might've been even to my dad the day before. And I said, I'm going to win.
Valerie: Wow.
Stephanie: First of all a feeling like that to come over me and then actually to say it, to punctuate it with the out loud, spoken word. I knew I just had a feeling. I definitely doubted myself once I got there and heard all the other performers, I was like, oh, I was terribly wrong! I'm not gonna win. But it was a really exciting experience to be part of something that, national, that huge, and then to share the stage, because at the end of the night, we all shared the stage together to sing a song, to share the stage with Sarah McLaughlin, and Sheryl Crow, and Luscious Jackson, and, goes on and on.
Valerie: This Lilith Fair thing was something that Sarah McLaughlin put together, because in the tours that were happening at that time, they were really male-centric. There were any women on these multi-band tours. And so she was like, Hey, I'm going to put together one that's all women.
And that's how the Lilith Fair came about it. I think it only happened for maybe three years or something like that, but it was a huge deal. What an incredible thing to happen when you first decide, okay, I'm going to go out on my own.
Stephanie: Yeah, it was wild and really exciting. I think I knew the gravity of it in the moment. I was like, oh, this is so exciting. Yeah.
So what happened next?
I just started writing a lot recording putting out albums, forming different bands, doing some touring. I remember doing a lot of college circuit touring. Touring regionally, having great experiences on the road, having catastrophic experiences on the road.
I remember traveling with this one band for a college tour where I was my own entity. I was my own act, but I was traveling with them cause we had a lot of the same schools booked us both. And this was like this young boy band. This was their very first tour. I was a little older than they were. I was out of college. They were in college or just starting college. And they were like, why the hell do we have to take this girl with us? We ended up, of course everybody got along and it was fun. But I remember sleeping and it was about seven of us in this van sleeping in freezing cold Montana weather.
Getting stuck, of course, in the snow and just sleeping in the van. And I would sleep like on the floor between the front seats and on the first bench. And just imagine all those windows closed, everybody breathing all night long, so disgusting. And then one of the guys, like the drummer ended up having pneumonia!
Valerie: Oh, my God.
Stephanie: And we all got really sick. It the worst. I mean, you know the stories. They just...It's so funny to think back.
Valerie: There's probably way too many of them, right?
Stephanie: So many. There are bar fights that can happen in the middle of shows. And I don't know, just everything in between.
Valerie: Uh, one of your records had some, maybe more than one, had some radio airplay on KINK, one of the top in Portland.
Stephanie: Kink has been so supportive. And I think before that, right around Lilith Fair it was the 107.5 called The Beat. There was one point in time where I was getting a lot of rotation, meaning a lot of plays. And that was really exciting to hear. I don't know. It always made me a little bit nervous to hear myself on the radio. You would be the expert on what that's like.
Valerie: I want to know what it, what was it like for you? Why did it make you feel kindof nervous?
Stephanie: A good question. I'm not sure. Um, You feel so exposed.
Valerie: Were you confident in your voice, in your songs, or not?
Stephanie: I think when I'm writing a song, I feel confident. When I'm recording the song, you know, sometimes after you've done with a song that moment in time, that's been captured. And then when you look back at it, you might have a different perspective and you just have to let it be because it's what it was. It's like very much a moment in that time forever.
Valerie: Right.
Stephanie: That's all it will ever be really.
Valerie: It's a snapshot.
Stephanie: Different than the live performance.
Valerie: Absolutely. Recording is so different than live performance.
Stephanie: Yeah.
Valerie: You've made a ton of records, Stephanie. I was just amazed when I was doing research for this interview.
Dirty Martini & Swan Sovereign
Valerie: So you'd been doing all this stuff on your own, and then you, and McKinley, and Laura Michelle started a three-piece called Dirty Martini. Tell us about that.
Stephanie: We had a songwriter's circle gig that was on Valentine's Day at The Bitter End, which is perfectly named because all of our songs were pretty sad, breakup songs. I mean, It was a joke to all of us because one song after the next, after the next , when we'd go down the line in this songwriter forum, one was sadder or more angry than the next.
So actually, no, we weren't called Dirty Martini that first night, it was actually four of us at the time, it shifted to three of us. And somebody kept getting the band rounds and rounds of dirty martinis. And that's why we were like, oh, we should do another dirty martini night. And that's how the name stuck.
Valerie: And then you turned into Swan Sovereign. So why change the name? Why change the whole, everything?
Stephanie: Well, after we put out a few albums with Dirty Martini, we'd done a lot of touring, the band shifted because it used to include a wonderful songwriter named Leah Krueger and things shifted for her, so it just ended up being me McKinley and Laura Michelle.
And then we decided switch around. We left our beloved rhythm section and became our own rhythm section. And so McKinley's on bass. She was playing bass and I started playing the drums for the first time and Laura Michelle's playing electric guitar. And it became this like kind of punchy defiant, like bossy power trio. And we decided right from the get-go that whatever song any of us brought in, we'd immediately called it a co-write.
And it changed everything. Because if McKinley brought in a song, I could write a bridge for it. I felt invested in the arrangement and the songwriting process rather than, you know, not stepping on anyone's toes, it's her song and just playing on it. It changed the chemistry immediately. And like where we all met musically in the middle, when we wrote together is really exciting. Cause we all come from slightly different places and I'm such a huge fan of both of their song writings. And in fact, there are three songs on the album I brought to that group and that we finished together.
Valerie: On your current album?
Stephanie: On Crossfire, yeah.
Valerie: So there was something else that happened in that time period where Dirty Martini suddenly became a thing in your life. Someone else came into your life in that time period, who was that?
So my husband, Tony Furtado is also a musician. He's like a world-renowned world-class instrumentalist and songwriter. And he and I both had gigs up in Seattle, and we'd been talking on the phone a lot during his tour. And the night before the Dirty Martini show was the first night that we came together and really started our relationship.
And so that one period of 24 hours was the beginning of what turned into a marriage with Tony. And what turned into this lifelong bandmates, soulmates, with Dirty Martini.
That's amazing. Your life just like pivoted on that moment.
Stephanie: So crazy.
Combining A Life In Music: Meeting Tony
Valerie: So what was it like to combine two lives that had such strong, but separate music careers?
Stephanie: It's so interesting. I think It helps us understand each other in so many ways. It's also tricky because you have two people who are living on a tight rope sometimes and balancing so many things in the world of being a self-employed creative artist.
And there are so many unknowns in terms of that life, that career, everything changes, you have to be so agile. And so for both of us to be balancing that. um, But I think we both give and take so much to each other and we've, it's been so special. Something I never really imagined how special it would be to share the stage together and to tour a little bit together.
And I'll be supporting him when he tours. He'll do the same for me. And that has been so exciting. I think that we've both grown a lot from being together and working together.
Valerie: He seems like such a sweet guy. when I see together on stage, the way that you support each other and look at each other and, I don't know, breathe together, you fit really well together. And that's that supports really evident in how you are on stage.
Stephanie: Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. I think it's just true respect. That's it. It's that is simple.
Valerie: Yeah. You both respect each other. But you guys had really distinct, separate careers and were touring a lot and stuff. So I was just curious as to how that happened, But then you had Liam. And having a child in a musical family where you're dependent on your gigs and anything you can do to scrap together an income is tough, and then having a child in the mix. How did that change your musical career?
Parenthood
Stephanie: Ah, so it's such a such an enormous way. Um, I think one thing that has worked well with Tony and I is that we both understand you know, what the role of solitude plays in our personal creativity.
And so it was a relationship where there was quite a bit of space. Even though how connected we are and how devoted we are to each other there's a lot of space. And I think that made it work. Like he was touring so much at the beginning, especially, and I could still have that space to myself to write, even as we were growing together.
It just like it worked in that way. Um, It's weird, but I think that's one of the reasons why we were so solidly together is because there was space that we allowed for each other because we understood the need for it. And that ties into your question because that really changed with Liam. Because your time and your space, it changes.
Valerie: Not having your own time. How does it change your marriage? When do you find time to create? um, I know for me having a son, even though we waited 20 years to have Malcolm, which is a weird thing to be able to say, you know, but we thought we were ready and then, oh my God, I wasn't. I just, I had no idea.
And then I felt like there was this invisible umbilical cord, always there. And even though, you know, as he grew older and I was able to do more things, I never felt like I was doing anything well. I felt guilty about not being there for him.
Stephanie: Oh, totally. Yeah.
Valerie: You know, cause I was focused on other things and I wanted to still create. And then you know, I felt like I wasn't doing any of the other things well either. So I don't know what it's like for you, but,
Stephanie: Pretty much what you just said.
Valerie: How do you deal? How do you, cope with that? That feeling of never quite getting any of the lists ticked off?
Stephanie: It's such a, it's just such a tangled thing. And there's so much in there because you know, it's these small moments you want to be available for. be available for them.
Valerie: And you can't just show up and say, okay, now we're going to have quality time. Let's have a special moment.
It doesn't happen like that. Yeah, no, you have to be around for a big space of time, just like with anybody really. And then there's this kind of trust and this kind of, don't know, things just unfold rather than being pressured to happen.
Stephanie: And I think in those first few years when Liam was born, I let go a little bit, just a little bit, about my career. I mean, I have a lot of projects I've been working on, but this is my first solo album in nine years.
Valerie: And he's how old now?
Stephanie: Nine. So there you...
Valerie: There you have it.
Stephanie: There you go. There's my answer to your question. But I think those first few years I really did, I was still busy, especially with Swan Sovereign, but it was different. Both Tony and I decided he's he was touring still quite a bit. And that was what we were choosing. We were choosing for that to be the focus and for me to be home with Liam.
I remember having him on my lap and sitting and writing things on the, at the piano. And he'd just be you can hear, I would be recording it cause you just take a little voice memo of yourself creating, and you hear these little block, blah, blah, blah, you hear this cute little sounds. And it's me trying to work on a song idea and he's on my lap. Just, I was like, you're here for this. So here we go.
Valerie: Yeah. Yeah. Ah, so what's the hardest part of combining music and motherhood for you?
Stephanie: Just exactly what you said. I think I feel guilty when I'm really focused and maybe I'm not available to him. But I also think he's great. He's okay. And he has parents that, you know, our jobs aren't nine to five, so we're home more in some ways.
Valerie: It's like, you're the family music farm there.
Right? If it's any consolation our son, Malcolm is now 26.
I know. And so I ask him every once in a while, did you feel like I was unavailable? Cause I remember there was one point in time I was working a lot on a nonprofit called Artists For The Arts. He'd come in when he was little and ,say, mom, I'm so sick of AFTA. Like AFTA, AFTA AFTA. like he was just telling me, but now that he's 26 I'll ask him what those years were like for him. And he says, I'm just so lucky to have parents like you. And I'm so glad for my upbringing and all the music that was in the house and so all those kinds of things. So I think, yeah, but it is hard.
So what's your favorite thing about being a mom?
Stephanie: Ah, I mean, Liam.
Valerie: Aren't boys wonderful?
Stephanie: Oh, he's just so funny. So philosophical and funny. And I marvel at just the way he takes in the world and it's exciting. It's exciting to watch somebody come into themselves constantly.
Valerie: Yeah.
Stephanie: It's just so exciting. I don't know it's the most exciting thing.
Valerie: I just about cried when I heard your song uh, Wherever You Go; wherever you go, whatever you find, whatever you do, my love, will stay with you. That's just, yeah. And then in the later part of the song, keep your heart open wherever you go, whatever you do. What, What a wonderful thing to be able to sing to your, child.
Stephanie: You know, what's interesting about that song. So Anna Amman from Oregon Music News, a publication here in Oregon, she actually hired me to write a song that was a love letter of sorts from her to her son who was graduating from high school.
Valerie: Oh, lovely.
Stephanie: And we got together over a cup of tea and talked about their story. And then I wrote that song and of course uh, drew upon my own motherhood in there, that influenced me. But one of the reasons I wrote that song because I think it gave me this, like, this permission to write a super happy love song. I usually reach for writing to untangle the knots that are in my head and heart and so this was totally different. And Liam is all over that too. And there are stories in there too.
Valerie: That's so sweet. I love it. I really do.
So we just talked about motherhood and how little time there is to do other things. when did you find the time to write the songs on your new record?
Stephanie: Across the pandemic has been a exception because he's home, we're all home together. But it did change when he started grade school. Like I said, I tend to write in solitude. So there'll be these little tours I would take.
I remember traveling through New Mexico on this long stretch of road through... I can't remember which towns I was coming from and heading to, but I was the only one on the road for like an hour it felt like. I felt like I was on Mars, you know, that feeling of just being completely alone. And I remember writing the song called The Same on that trip which starts off if there is a loneliness in me, I can see the loneliness in you. If, if there's a pretender in me, I can see you are pretending too.
You know, sometimes you just need that, those thoughts by yourself to even spark something that turns into a song.
So I would, find little bits of time maybe when I was on the road by myself, or I did take a couple of writing trips, maybe one night here and there.
The Inception Of A Musical
Stephanie: When Liam was a baby, I started reading and learning and researching a lot about the very layered topic of human trafficking. And, I read like 20 books, and I listened to a bunch of podcasts, and I watched films. And then I interviewed about 14 different women up and down the west coast. I started to develop this idea for a musical. And the musical is about the intersection between the vulnerability of youth, and the world of demand and where those to where those two things intersect.
And the story that I kept hearing over and over again from these women that I interviewed is a story of it was a love story until it wasn't. And they were sold on a dream and they were in a vulnerable place. And they came from all sorts of backgrounds, all shapes and sizes of backgrounds.
And it just made me realize every single person I interviewed made me realize this could happen to anybody. And so I started researching to understand more about the medium of the musical theater, which writing for that is so different. And I, brought in two people. One is a woman named Amy Engelhardt, who lives in LA, but she's from New York and she's a veteran composer for musical theater.
And then there's someone else named Sandra Daley who now lives in Savannah. She was living in New York at the time. And we started developing this musical and the pandemic hit and it sorta changed everything. But that is sitting on the back burner still. And it was really a different experience writing. When you're writing musical theater, you're musicalizing dialogue it moves forward in time, just like conversations in life do, which is different than a song that kind of captures a moment and maybe keeps it there.
And so, it was really exciting writing with Amy and learning. And we wrote 10 or 12 songs together. We developed this whole story. We would meet up in New York that would be the place cause usually she spent a lot of time there. It was really exciting.
Valerie: How did you find these two women?
Stephanie: I used all my resources here in Portland like the brilliant Susanna Mars. And she connected me with Amy. And then, there are other people that I know in the world of theater here in Portland, who connected with some people in New York, who then connected with someone else, who connect with someone else, who landed me with Sandra. That kind of thing. You know, Just the chain of how many, six degrees apart you can be to somebody.
Valerie: So, first of all, I'm really excited to hear what happens with this musical as it comes down the pike. And please let me know what's happening with it so I can, let people know who've listened to this episode that it's out there. Cause it's a really tough subject and one that whose story hasn't been told enough. And especially in the way that you're talking about it.
But the other thing that strikes me about how you're doing this musical is that it connects to the way that you are able to go out there and connect with people and ask for things.
Voices For Silent Disasters
Valerie: And another example of that is the Voices For Silent Disasters that you organized and produced, which was a humanitarian concert series to raise money and awareness for Mercy Corp's efforts in Northern Uganda.
And I remember meeting you over coffee to talk about the event, way back then. And this concert, first of all, it wasn't just one concert, it was ten concerts featuring nearly 40 of Portland's top musical acts. And it raised over $70,000. I know firsthand how much energy and planning it takes to organize one benefit concert, nevermind ten of them throughout the city.
The hardest part about doing something like this for me anyway is asking, even if I know that what I'm asking for has worth. I just am wondering how did you do it?
Stephanie: I totally understand this question because it is really hard for me to ask when I feel like it's for me.
But when it came to everything, I was learning about the communities in Northern Uganda. It was a whole different feeling for me. It was so much more than about me and promoting anything that had to do with me. It was, there was this mission that we, as a community we could all do together and I did have a lot of help. Um, so I wanted to do one house concert and then I thought, why don't I get other artists to do house concerts and each of us can individually raise a couple of thousand and together we can come up with 20,000 and that was the original goal.
And then I brought the idea to Mercy Corps and it just grew. Every time I'd talked to another artist about it, they wanted to be part of it. And then McMenamins donated all of their venues. And then I was sponsored on a trip over to Uganda to meet with the communities that we were raising money for so that it wasn't just numbers and figures on a page. It was personal. It was like truly personal.
Valerie: Right. there.
Stephanie: I can name everybody. And I could see what life was like in these resettlement sites after that war.
Valerie: You must have come back with such a fire in your belly.
Stephanie: I did and actually, you know, it's interesting because Mercy Corps has a a fund that's called Silent Disasters. And in that fund they have several countries. And the idea is that they're countries that maybe aren't getting as much, they're not in the limelight of the press so that's the word silent. And then the disasters obviously just shows like there's been war and there's been a lot of people displaced from their homes and going through hardships. But when I came back and it was too late to change anything, but I just was like I just met the most amazing most competent, most... I'd been so inspired by everybody I met. Nobody's a disaster. This is not a disaster, this is like a success story that we should be shining a light on. I wanted it to be called Voice For Silent Successes. But we couldn't change it at that point because I felt like the word disaster just did not match what I saw.
Valerie: Uh, huh. Which was they were...
Stephanie: They were making their life into from being displaced from their homes, from having an entire generation, without the knowledge of culture that goes along with being where they were in their village before they got displaced. To be put into this resettlement sites where there was disease, there was alcoholism because it was so much stress, everybody's close together. They didn't have their land. So they couldn't pass on all of the traditions around what crops they particularly, you know, everything that goes along with thriving. And so they had to just recreate their entire lives in this new very, very tightly compacted location.
And it was amazing!
Valerie: Yeah. And so many people are still trying to do that. And many more will continue to because of the way that the world is going right now.
Speaking of which, there will never be an end to I mean, I wish there would be an end to all the things that we, raise money for and because these problems would be solved, but for the singers out there who have a philanthropic streak, is there any advice you would give to them if they wanted to give to their community, but didn't know where to start.
It Only Takes One Person
Stephanie: I remember attending a benefit, I was probably... I sang at the benefit, um, that sparked this whole idea for Voices For Silent Disasters. And it was that the one person got up there and said, it only takes one person to start something new. That's it. And so I think for me, I tend to think local when I start something new and I try to, when I try something new. It doesn't mean that I might not have a dream about it to grow past local, but I it's more tangible to me to use what's like right around me and maybe start small. And so I think, There's this notion that I've had in the past, which is who are you to, how can you start something like that? But it really only took one person. It just took me to start this idea of a house concert. It was a ball that rolled.
And when something is meant to it kind of doesn't matter who's the person who came up with the idea. It was meant to happen. Somebody was going to get there. It just happened to be me. I guess. It was a wonderful experience.
Valerie: So, believing that that one person can make a difference. And then it sounds like partnering with an organization is a really helpful thing because they can at least point you in the right direction for where the money can go. I mean, cause that's one of the things that gets people to give is that they know the organization that the money is going to... is a good one. That makes a huge difference.
Stephanie: Totally. So of course, yes, connecting with Mercy Corps is absolutely was the most important choice. Um, I also connected with the Ugandan community right here in Portland and really tried to like understand, do my research and understand what I could anyway, I'm sure it was only the tip of the iceberg, but to understand what I could about the culture and about the history so that I was representing things correctly, representing the facts correctly. made a difference because it made people want to sign on when they believe that you've done the homework. There's traction there when you when you connect with the community. It's true.
Valerie: You've done so many different kinds of projects in your music career and your philanthropic career. And I know you teach as well.
Success and Failure
Valerie: So one of the pieces that I read about your new album, Crossfire, says that it draws on themes from your life, including motherhood, self-discovery, and failure. And we've talked a little bit about motherhood. We've talked a little bit about self-discovery. Talk to me about failure and what keeps you going when your projects or recordings don't succeed in the way that you hoped they would.
Fun topic, huh?
Stephanie: Fun! So So
fun. fun!
Valerie: Gee, Valerie, thanks for asking that question.
Stephanie: I love talking about failure. I am an expert on failure, no. Um, so there's this expectation versus the reality. And sometimes those things don't match up, most of the time they don't, probably. But I think that what, makes me continue to get back up on a horse is that all I am in charge of doing is my best. And I can't really do anything more. It's so hard not to feel, not to be harsh with ourselves. I am often very harsh with myself.
And I think that something shifted for me with this album. This album feels like the culmination of a lot of the places I've been musically.
Working With Producers
Stephanie: When I think back to the producers I worked with, I learned a lot about shaping the songs, surrounding yourself with musicians that are incredible. Keeping things simple. You know, following a moments that you maybe didn't expect and staying creatively agile in the studio. And then with Keith Shriner, I learned so much. Keith is an electronic producer. He's sort of like Portland, Oregon's very own Brian Eno, or Daniel Benoit, that kind of, electronic textures from the world of the ambient textures.
And boy, I learned a ton from working with him because I learned how drums are everything. They actually shape more of the song than anything in my opinion. And they propel a particular side of the beat. They pull or push and depending on what you want, it's just so fascinating to me how they define a song sometimes.
Anyway Keith really opened my eyes to having a much, broader palette of textures than this kind of more folk rock, organ or keys and bass and drums and having the basic rock band be your pallet. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that there's so many more textures to work with in the world of electronic...
Valerie: Music. Yeah.
Stephanie: Yeah. And you can use those as flourishes in there. So when Keith was producing, we went pretty heavy into that world, even though it's still my song writing. And so with this album, it was exciting to use pieces of that, but also pull on pieces from my past. So. I tried to kind of marry the two worlds, the world of folk and the Americana, and that rootsy very sparse vibe with the ambience of textures from the world of electronic bass and drums. And each song has its own way of expressing that. And so that was something that I really tried to focus on with this album.
And, this one album probably represents me more than any other album and it's because I produced it. Because when you work with the producer their stamp is what the album sounds like. It might be your song writing, but it's their stamp. It's their sonic stamp. This feels like Like you said, it's a pallet and it's their palette.
Right.
Valerie: What you did really successfully, if I may say, is you took everything that you've learned, everything you've done over your entire career and created your own palette. And it's my favorite record you've ever done.
Stephanie: Thank you. That means so much to me.
Valerie: It's really wonderful.
So maybe I'm putting words in your mouth here and you can let me know if I am. The voice in your head that says that maybe you failed in other things. Cause obviously you've succeeded in doing a lot in your life, but we all have these voices in our heads that tell us that we're not good enough.
Dead Voices
Valerie: And in fact, you wrote a song about it. It's called Dead Voices. And I really love the song. It's all the voices that I've heard in my head. And I think they're the voices that we all hear in our heads. Things like, You can't do it. You're not good enough. They don't really like you.
You're nothing but the same.
I just read a book called chatter, the voice in our head, why it matters and how to harness it by phsychologist and neuroscientist, Ethan Cross. And in the book, he explores the silent conversations we have with ourselves and how they have the potential to harm us or help us.
And everyone has these voices, but when you're a singer, putting yourself out there can feel incredibly vulnerable. Because your voice isn't just any instrument it's you. And when you sing your own songs, that's like vulnerability to the third power. So how do you make friends with these voices?
Stephanie: It's so hard. I remember seeing an interview with, a comedian and he was saying that it's basically comes down to how much pain can you endure It makes sense as a comedian because how many failed attempts are you going to learn from? So there's a lot more information, I think, in the failures, unfortunately, but fortunately, whatever, somewhere between those things . Um, You know, I've learned so much when things didn't work out or when I feel like the weakest link in a band.
There's like this space between our expectations and then what actually does happen. And we all have to come to some terms around that. And so we might define something as failure when actually it's not, but it doesn't matter, if it feels that way, it feels that way. Failure is just part of the process of Everything, especially creating and then putting something out there. Because not everybody's going to like it and you're going to get so much rejection. And there's so many times I didn't make the mark. And so many times where I lost an opportunity because I screwed it up or so many times when, I don't know. There's so many times where I feel, I have felt like a failure. And even in this album, there are so many times I would come home from a recording session and just feel like this song isn't working the way I need it to. And I know it, I know it's not there, but I don't know how to get it there.
Valerie: I don't know how to fix it.
Stephanie: I don't know how to fix it yet.
Valerie: Yeah.
Stephanie: But maybe, maybe that's the piece is the, yet.
Valerie: Right. And giving yourself a little grace and time to find the solution And know that you don't have all the answers. I guess I could talk for two more hours about this subject alone.
Stephanie: I know! It's such a hard subject because In fact, I wrote a song about this exact thing, which is on the album. It's called Empire. it's about letting myself fail, just letting that be, if that's my definition of whatever just happened. Letting it be. Letting it fall. Just letting the failure be a failure.
Valerie: Yeah,
Stephanie: Being with just that and then moving on.
Valerie: That's a hard one. I've been there too. It took me about 20 years to recover from Nu Shooz actually, losing our record deal... and, and getting good with it in a way that I can now say, I really have put that one to bed. But it wasn't, it wasn't easy. And a lot of these voices just, continued to follow me, the ones that you wrote about in your song.
Final question. If you were to go back in time and talk to a younger version of yourself and ask her a question or give her some advice, how old would she be and what would you say to her?
Stephanie: I think I would go back to a really young version of myself and say, it's okay to claim like your space or it's okay to take up space, it's okay to get get big, to be fully you.
Valerie: Nice. I love that. Thank you so much for your time today.
Stephanie: It's just so much fun to talk to you and I really appreciate all your questions so much.
Valerie: I just love talking with you. Let's do it again soon.
Thank you for listening to this episode of living a vocal life, you'll find complete show notes and a transcription of my conversation with Stephanie on my website, valeriedaysings.com. You'll also find videos of Stephanie performing and talking more about the making of her new album Crossfire, plus a link to the book I mentioned in this episode, Chatter.
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Until next time, be well, keep singing, and thanks again for listening.
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