Episode #5 Rindy Ross from Quarterflash
Welcome to Living A Vocal Life: A Podcast For Singers!
Welcome to the Living A Vocal Life Podcast, where I interview singers who have succeeded in creating a life in music. You’ll hear from vocalists of all genres, in different stages of their careers, including singers who’ve been on the Billboard charts and those who are teaching the next generation. What do they have in common? They're all performers with amazing stories to tell and experiences to share.
In our conversations, you’ll learn what inspired them to become a singer, the kinds of challenges they’ve encountered, and how they've overcome them. I'll also share what I've learned on my own journey as a singer and educator — practical tools and insights that will help you to live your best, most authentic vocal life.
Listen below here on my website
or subscribe wherever
you listen to podcasts:
November's guest on the podcast is singer saxophonist Rindy Ross from the band Quarterflash. I first met Rindy in the early 80s when she and her husband Marv were riding the wave of their crossover hit Harden My Heart. After years of playing bars in the Pacific Northwest as Seafood Mama, they had recently been signed to Geffen Records, changing their name to Quarterflash. During their time with Geffen, they had four songs that charted on the top 40, and their self-titled debut album went platinum. They toured with Elton John, Linda Ronstadt, Sammy Hagar, Loverboy, The Beach Boys, Three Dog Night, Jefferson Starship, and more.
In 1991 Rindy and Marv started the Trail Band — a blend of Americana, Celtic, Folklorico, and early music. They recorded a total of 13 albums and performed across the U.S. and Japan. In Portland alone, the Trail Band's holiday show has sold out over 100 times and raised more than a million dollars for the nonprofit Friends of the Children. Quarterflash continued to perform and record too during this time, releasing two more albums on their own label.
In addition to all the creative projects she's been a part of, Rindy has worked as a teacher and counselor. She's my go-to buddy when I need someone who is thoughtful and wise to talk about the craziness of the music business and the big stuff of life too. She's a survivor in more ways than one. I love how she's navigated life's ups and downs with integrity, wholeheartedness, and an awesome sense of humor.
“Surround yourself as much as possible with people that like to laugh. Stop worrying. Let it go. Go hang out and laugh, you know? It always helps.”
Links:
You can find Rindy at these websites: Ross Productions and Quarterflash.
The songs from today’s episode are titled Crazy Quilt and Rise Above, and are from the Quarterflash album Goodbye Uncle Buzz (used with permission). To listen or download, go HERE.
Theme music for the Podcast was composed by John Smith. He edits all the podcast episodes too. (Thanks, honey!)
-
Valerie: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Living A Vocal Life. Today's guest on the podcast is singer saxophonist Rindy Ross from the band Quarterflash. I first met Rindy in the early 80s when she and her husband Marv were riding the wave of their crossover hit Harden My Heart. After years of playing bars in the Pacific Northwest as Seafood Mama, they had recently been signed to Geffen Records, changing their name to Quarterflash. During their time with Geffen, they had four songs that charted on the top 40, and their self-titled debut album went platinum. They toured with Elton John, Linda Ronstadt, Sammy Hagar, Loverboy, The Beach Boys, Three Dog Night, Jefferson Starship, and more. In 1991 Rindy and Marv started the Trail Band — a blend of Americana, Celtic, Folklorico, and early music. They recorded a total of 13 albums and performed across the U.S. and Japan. In Portland alone, the Trail Band's holiday show has sold out over 100 times and raised more than a million dollars for the nonprofit Friends of the Children. Quarterflash continued to perform and record too during this time, releasing two more albums on their own label. In addition to all the creative projects, she's been a part of Rindy has worked as a teacher and counselor. She's my go-to buddy when I need someone who is thoughtful and wise to talk about the craziness of the music business and the big stuff of life too. She's a survivor in more ways than one. I love how she's navigated life's ups and downs with integrity, wholeheartedness, and an awesome sense of humor. Thanks for joining me on the show today Rindy.
Rindy: I am delighted to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Valerie: What's your first memory of singing?
Rindy: I think my very first memory of singing and singing in front of people which is not exactly what you asked, but when I was in third grade, I would wrangle my friend Marna and make her do show and tell with me in front of the class. And show and tell really was an excuse to sing a song in front of the class. And so I remember we pretended to have a boat and we sang On Moonlight Bay in front of the class, and I just thought that was the best thing ever. And did this little harmony thing and.
Valerie: Oh, that's awesome. I love that. Moonlight Bay.
Rindy: We were sailing along and then she'd go, We were sailing along... You know. Anyway, you get the message. Of course, I was bossy. No, you have to do this. You'll do this, and then I'll sing this.
Valerie: You were producing already. I love it. So let's fast forward a little bit. Did you know you wanted to be a singer?
Rindy: I knew that I loved to sing and in a way that's different than being a singer. As far as professionally because I always thought that I was going to be a teacher, either a high school teacher or I ended up doing elementary school, but I always thought that music might play a part in that. But I did not want to be a music teacher. I loved singing, and mostly for me, the high was harmony. Being in a choir or harmonizing with one other person. So yeah. And to this day, I think I would have been happy as a clam being a backup singer. Yeah, because of that — that piece right there. Because I think more than anything, I felt that my gift was that I heard harmony.
Valerie: And blend.
Rindy: And blend. Yeah, yeah.
Valerie: But harmony. I agree with you. I grew up singing with my brother and sister on family trips in the car with my mom and my dad. And I just love singing the alto part. You know, my mom would always be on melody., And there's just something really special, especially in a choir; a large group of people when the harmonics rub up against each other just the right way. I could just go for that forever. Forget lead singing.
Rindy: Yeah, me too. I loved that. And my sister and I would do the dishes and sing together, and I would always make her do the melody because I wanted to make up a harmony part.
Valerie: That's so cool. So you got your teaching degree in the 70s and then taught for three years in Central Oregon while gigging in bands. Tell me more about that time period in your life, and what was it maybe that drew you to teaching, and why did you decide to quit after three years and go full time into performing?
Rindy: I think that the draw to teaching was partly that from a young age, I felt compelled to be a helper, I guess — a person that could make a difference in someone else's life. Because I had had some very influential teachers, people that really changed my life, I think I wanted to have that experience myself. And so my direction through high school and through college was I was going to teach. And so when I graduated from college, it was at a time actually when it was hard to find teaching jobs because there was kind of a glut of teachers for some reason. And so I had my first interview at Western Oregon University, which is where I went to school and they gave me the job. So, I was married at that point already, and so it meant that Marv had to find a job somewhere near Redmond, Oregon. His degree was also in education. So we did that, and we knew that we did want to play music. So we put together a band in Central Oregon that was called Jones Road, and it was because we lived on Jones Road.
Valerie: Perfect.
Rindy: Yep. And we played at various places — bars on weekends and occasionally a Sunday night, which meant that I rolled into school on Monday morning, a little bit tired. You know, when you're 20 something, you have a ton of energy. And it was just this great balance. I was teaching and enjoying my fifth-grade class and having this great fun playing covers. And Marv was already doing original material that early, and so we would tuck in you know some of his original songs. And so it was just this very fun balance.
Valerie: Teaching is a wonderful profession, and it is a helping profession. And teachers change lives. I wish they were more revered in our culture. Yeah. It's an important job. Anyway, so you're in Central Oregon. You're teaching. Who are your influences musically at this time?
Rindy: You know, from about my last couple years of college and through my three years of teaching, I would say the strongest influence was Joni Mitchell because of her amazing voice, her songwriting, which is you know incomparable. She was mesmerizing to me to watch her confidence on the stage as she sat there with her, you know, lap dulcimer, or her guitar, or the piano. She just exuded this, I'm going to tell you a story, and you're going to listen. And of course, you did. So she was the biggest influence. But certainly Bob Dylan and you know later on people like John Prine. Singer-songwriters and I know that Marv's interest and ability to write songs really influenced me too as far as who we listened to together. So I think it was mostly singer-songwriters.
Valerie: Well, you guys together in Seafood Mama and in Quarterflash, the songs are storyteller songs.
Rindy: They are.
Valerie: They're wonderful. And I love... I love listening to them because of that. So you're in this band together, and you're both teaching and then what happens?
Rindy: Well, at that point, Marv was getting itchy to do music full time. I was not as confident as he that we could pull that off. So we had only taught for three years. And he said I really want to move to Portland and I really want to try to do music full time. He was ready to just go for it. And I had to think about that for a while, and I ended up taking a year's leave of absence because I wasn't — I am probably to this day and definitely then — less of a risk-taker than Marv was. And I wasn't sure that this was going to work. And so he just quit his job. He always knew that he was done teaching and that he was gonna do music full-time. And he was right. We never went back. I did not take them up on that. Coming back to that job a year later.
Valerie: But you had your backup plan.
Rindy: I had a backup plan. That's right.
Valerie: Yes. I'm a little more like you I. I can take a leap. But I really want that safety net like kind of underneath there's somewhere and the leap may be to be not too far.
So tell me about Seafood Mama and Harden My Heart. What's the story around that song?
Rindy: Seafood Mama was a band of... There were five of us. And one of the interesting things about the instrumentation, we had bass and drums and guitar, and me picking up the saxophone which I had played briefly in the fifth grade and put down because I was the only girl saxophone player in my fifth grade and class and I was quite intimidated by that at the time. But I still had my father's saxophone and decided to see what I remembered about playing, and I just started, in fact, I was playing on stage well before I should have been, but just started you know playing by ear various solos and stuff that I heard with especially with Marv's original tunes. The other unique thing about Seafood Mama is that one of the members his main thing that he did was play violin. So we had bass, drums, guitar, saxophone, and violin, and we had kind of a unique sound at times with the sax and violin — the alto sax and violin kind of doing harmony lines together and stuff which was great fun.
Valerie: And very unique.
Rindy: It was unique and just had a very fun time. Played for about three years. Finally, working our way into downtown Portland. We kind of played the suburbs until we kind of got well-known enough and had enough of a following to play at the more coveted clubs and developed a following.
Valerie: So what year was this about, and how often were you playing during that time?
Rindy: We were playing probably at least three nights a week and sometimes more than that.
Valerie: And this was four hours a night.
Rindy: They were long.
Valerie: Nobody opened in those days for you.
Rindy: That's exactly right. It was generally nine to one. And sometimes nine to two. I think that was probably '77 through 1980.
Valerie: Oh, wow.
Rindy: In 1980, Marv had this song. He took the title from a poem that a friend of ours had written. He wrote this song, and it was a really... Was one of those things that happened really quick. And we recorded it in our basement with this reel to reel that we had financed from getting a little loan from Marv's dad.
Valerie: Amazing, yeah. Because not very many people had recording gear at that time.
Rindy: That's right. And it was interesting that the saxophone riff was kind of... Marv kind of, he said, Well, I want you playing saxophone at something in the beginning, and he kind of came up with a couple notes and had me just fool around with it. And I turned it into that line that turned into kind of this iconic thing that yeah that has been very good to us.
Valerie: So that song was huge, and it enabled you to do so many things. You were then signed to Geffen Records, and how long did your recording career with Quarterflash and Geffen last?
Rindy: Well, and I should back up just a little bit in that the first recording of Harden My Heart was with Seafood Mama. And it was a 45 that we put it out locally and distributed ourselves. We would go to the various stores with our 45's and...
Valerie: Kind of like coal miner's daughter, right?
Rindy: It was sort of like that, and it was on the basis of that that an A&R person came from the Geffen label, which was a new label. They had signed only some kind of big heavyweights, including John Lennon, and Elton John, and Donna Summer. Her name was Carole Child, and she came to hear us play when we were playing in Seattle. And she was really interested. And at this point, we had a manager of this person that had gone to L.A. and shopped that 45 and mostly got doors closed on him. But the fact that he took the 45 to David Geffen's office was how she came to hear us in Seattle. And she offered us a deal with Geffen, and a producer named John Boylan was asked to come to Seattle and record a few songs that we would likely do on the record to see how the band did. And he said that he really liked the band, but he wasn't sure that we worked well as far as the instrumentation. He was concerned about whether or not that would work and decided that the deal would just be for Marv and I, which was really difficult. We'd been a band.
Valerie: Yeah, and when you're a band, it's like you're... You've done all these... You've played together for three years and basically live together — it's like your family at that point.
Rindy: Yeah. So it was a really hard thing.
Valerie: But did you feel you must have felt like he was he was right in terms of where you saw the band going eventually or...
Rindy: Where he was right, and we knew this, that some of the players were much more in the direction of country, and that's not the direction that Marv wanted to go. And Harden My Heart and some of the songs that he had started writing were really different than the Seafood Mama all over the map swing and country. And...
Valerie: Because you were a bar band, I mean when you're a bar band, and you play four hours a night you got to play a lot of material, you know. And it's hard to play originals for four hours. Nobody's going to stick around and party to that. So creatively, it's a different animal. I think.
Rindy: It is.
Valerie: So it makes sense that when you got this feedback Marv was already thinking well, you know this is where I want to go with my songwriting, and so the switch made sense.
Rindy: And so is the first album was primarily done with studio musicians with the exception of Bruce Sweetman who played the violin on some of the debut album. Like, Find Another Fool, there's a violin part in that. And... So it was a hard time, but it was also just an extremely exhilarating time.
Valerie: Well, the three years that you were playing around Portland and then the two or three years before that, you'd already been doing gigs for six years. Is that right?
Rindy: Yes, pretty much. Jones Road and then Seafood Mama. It was definitely about six years of playing a lot.
Valerie: And really honing your craft and getting some stagecraft together and all of those kinds of things. I mean cause you're just, you're green when you start out. And that's the wonderful thing about that time period is that when you had a little bit of success locally, you could play a lot. And all that experience is hard to get, I think these days. Because there's so many bands. And you can only play, you know like a four-band bill or even a two-band bill you're only playing an hour and a half to two hours maybe? You know? So four hours a night, three to five nights a week, is a good learning experience for sure.
Rindy: And those early bands we traded vocalists. I was not the only vocalist...
Valerie: Right. Because no way can you last for four hours. You know.
Rindy: Right. And it was fun because they were more country kind of singers and stuff. And so, yeah. But then it all it really changed when we began to really focus in on a new band that we decided to call Quarterflash and have it be definitely a kind of an A.O.R. rock kind of niche instead of bar band all over the map.
Valerie: What did success look like to you before you got the record deal, and then how was it different than you expected?
Rindy: I think before we got the record deal, success was measured in can we make a living. Can we put food on the table and a roof over our head and not be too stretched all the time. And so actually with Seafood Mama, we felt, you know, really quite successful because we were even able to save a little bit of money and buy a starter house because we were working enough. Which for most musicians, that's really quite amazing. You know.
Valerie: It is amazing. It's a miracle, actually.
Rindy: It's a miracle!
Valerie: And Portland was a different place to buy real estate in at that time, too. So you got in at a good moment.
Rindy: Absolutely, it was very different. And so actually getting signed was both exciting for me and definitely for Marv but also even a little bit frightening. Because the expectations and what success looks like is different. So for us, we didn't really focus on that piece because it was compared to what? It was like Woo woo! You know we get to record with this amazing producer who's worked with the Eagles and Little River Band and Linda Ronstadt, and it's just like it's all great. And whether or not anything happened, we just felt so energized and blessed that we had this opportunity. And so the fact that the record took off and did so well, I think was kind of shocking to us. I mean, in an awesome way.
Valerie: Right.
Rindy: But it seemed to happen really fast. And all of a sudden, we were asked to go out on these big tours, and we had not ever played in these big venues before. And so it was a real...
Valerie: It's such a different animal.
Rindy: It's a real learning experience.
Valerie: Yeah. I remember thinking when we were playing three to five nights a week and four hours a night, you know, Aww man, if I can do this I can do tours. That sounds cushy, you know? Because the only pictures I'd ever seen were of Dolly Parton's tour bus where she's got the gold sink and the chandelier's and stuff, you know? And she's probably got at least a day in between, well maybe she didn't but, a day in between cities so that she had a little bit of rest time or whatever. But it's a different kind of pressure. How did you navigate that pressure?
Rindy: You know I think that the piece of that that was invaluable for Marv, and I was that we were doing it together. And our bandmates — that we had put together this band from another Portland band and assembled a group that could tour on the new record — they were not with their partners. And so I think it was really harder for the rest of the band than it was for Marv and I as far as that... Having someone at the end of the night that you could process with. Not that we didn't do that as a band because we did. But it's different.
Valerie: I get what you're saying. Totally.
Rindy: Yeah. Like if you... if you felt like you sucked that night or something that someone who could just pat you on the back and say, You know, it's really OK and...
Valerie: It's also an amazing thing... like you guys were on Dick Clark's American Bandstand show, and those kind of experiences too are incredible to be able to share with your partner. I mean at the end of the day you can look at each other and go, Oh my God! What just happened here?
Rindy: I know.
Valerie: You know? And that's pretty...a wonderful thing too. And I do agree with you our band had a lot harder time than I think John and I did. This was the days before you could call your significant other up on your phone and see each other. You know. You had to use a payphone on the road, you know? And it was long distance, and it was really... Yeah. It was very, very challenging.
Rindy: We were older; we were 30 when we were signed. We were not 21. And I think just having that little bit of extra life experience that we were not too dazzled, I mean in a bad way. Like, not to full of ourselves.
Valerie: You'd seen a few things go on already that gave you some... And a little idea of how life works. This is such a different world that we live in now. Record companies still exist, but they're more like a team for artists, and they're not the gatekeepers anymore. Whereas when we were both signed to labels, that was the only... Pretty much the only way you could get heard on the radio. I'm kind of wondering how the relationships that you had with the record company, and your manager, and those kinds of things went. Like for instance, producers. I never really knew what a producer's job was until we started making records, and even these days you can work with producers and kind of go, Well what is their job? What do they do?
Rindy: Our first producer was really a teacher. I mean John Boylan is still a dear friend, and we saw him fairly recently. He's an amazing man and loved the role that he took with us, which he knew that we were absolute rubes and he would educate along the way in the most benevolent non-pejorative sort of way.
Valerie: That's so lucky.
Rindy: It was so lucky! In fact, he put us up at his house during the recording of the debut album.
Valerie: That's right! And that's where you found a book with the name Quarterflash in it. Is that right? Yeah. At his house!
Rindy: At his house, he had just produced The Little River Band — an Australian band, and he had this book of Australian folk sayings. And we came across this phrase Quarterflash which meant that someone was one-quarter flash and three parts foolish. And that just seemed to epitomize who we were and just our whole attitude about what we were doing. It's just like, Well, let's just throw it against the wall and...
Valerie: See what sticks.
Rindy: Yeah, and see if we can laugh along the way and...Yeah. So he was great, and we used John for that album and then another album. And our third album, which was Back Into Blue, Marv kind of wanted to have a little bit more of a keyboard-oriented recording. Someone that was a little bit more into not really dance music but different — at not quite just solid rock type format. And so we chose Steve Levine, who was a, still lives in London, I believe, and was the producer for Culture Club. Very different.
Valerie: OK. So we're heading into the mid-80s where all of a sudden there's all this new technology. And it's exciting I think to those of us who hadn't heard it before... So what happened with that?
Rindy: Well, what happened was that Steve wanted to make the record in Miraval, which is a recording studio in the south of France. And it was later just recently owned by Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie.
Valerie: Oh, my goodness.
Rindy: It was their...
Valerie: Kind of a nice spread then, I bet.
Rindy: Yeah. It's an amazing spread. Yes. And so it was an amazing experience to record a record so far away from home and have this experience of this techno world. But what we hadn't really planned on is, and we did not know Steve very well, Is that Steve wanted to basically sequence everything.
Valerie: Oh, and that's not...
Rindy: Even the guitar...
Valerie: That's not you. Yeah, that's not you guys at all.
Rindy: And it's not us. And so there was some push-pull on that record, and I know that for me, the additional push-pull was that I felt that the only way I could really have my voice heard as far as production ideas was to deliver it through Marv because Steve wouldn't take direction from me. It was like it was immediately dismissed. But then Marv could say the same thing.
Valerie: Oh, that's so frustrating.
Rindy: And he'd go, OK, yeah, we could do that.
Valerie: Oh my God, Rindy.
Rindy: Yeah, I know it. It left a... I learned from it. I learned from it.
Valerie: What did you learn, and what would you do differently now? If anything.
Rindy: I would have called him on it more. But I felt like at the time we were so far away from home. I didn't want to impede the process.
Valerie: It's expensive for one thing.
Rindy: Yes. Yes. I decided that if I could get heard by hook or by crook that I.. as long as it happened, that I kind of got some of my ideas in place, that I would let it go. It felt...
Valerie: Pretty awful, I would think.
Rindy: Yeah, it felt bad at times.
Valerie: Yeah. Wow. So how many more records did you make for Geffen after that? Did you work with any other producers?
Rindy: No. At that point after Back Into Blue, which was enough of a departure for us that I think our hardcore fans went, What? You know. I still like the record, but it is really different than than the debut album or Take Another Picture, which was the second album. And our A&R person, Carol Childs, left Geffen and... The record company world is really driven by your relationship with your A&R person. And if you lose that connection, then you can get just put on someone else's plate. And we were put on the plate of John Kolodner, who is a heavy metal guy.
Valerie: Oh yeah. That happened to us too!
Rindy: Yes, I know it did.
Valerie: Which is so weird that you know, I mean, we started out as a dance band, and then all of a sudden, I think it was the A&R guy for White Lion. But you know we should go back and talk about it a little bit? Is what an A&R person does. Because I don't think I mean, I didn't even really know.
Rindy: Oh, I didn't either.
Valerie: You know when we were a bar band, and people would say, Oh yeah, the record company is gonna send out an A&R person. I had no idea what they did and how important that relationship was. We ended up having I think three or four different A&R people because they just didn't last very long in the record company environment usually. And, oh my god, it was so hard because they needed to go to bat for you. But if they stuck out their neck too far for the artist, then they were accused of not working for the label. So they were usually fired. This was what we discovered. So anyway, talk about your relationship with your A&R person and how important that was in that environment.
Rindy: Absolutely. And A&R stands for Artists and Repertoire. The role that she played with us, Carol Childs, was that she was our point person with the label and she would run interference with the president of the label, and with David Geffen himself. Go to bat for us, as you said. And her opinion had weight with us as far as the direction of the songwriting. And so she was a fan of Marv's songwriting and was not an impediment to him much at all, which was great. So we liked working with Carol. She was an interesting, very interesting woman, and she helped get us the soundtrack work with the Ron Howard film Nightshift. And was close friends with Carole Bayer Sager, who is married to...
Valerie: Oh, my goodness.
Rindy: Yeah, I know. Who is married to Burt Bacharach.
Valerie: Marv ended up writing a song with him, is that right?
Rindy: Yes. They had written the song Nightshift, which was the opening song for the movie, and wanted us to perform it. And we went over to Burt and Carrol's house and they...
Valerie: What an experience just doing that!
Rindy: I know. And Marv is such, and I too, such a Burt Bacharach fan.
Valerie: Oh, me too. That period of songwriting. All the way.
Rindy: Oh, absolutely. But what was interesting about it was that at the time, they were totally into Pac Man games.
Valerie: Oh, funny!
Rindy: Mr. and Ms. Pac Man, you know, and they would play Pac Man. And so the lyric for Nightshift, which is about basically having a brothel in a morgue.
Valerie: Oh, great. I didn't know that!
Rindy: Yes. Running a brothel in a morgue. But Carol Bayer Sager's lyrics were about Inky and Blinky of Pacman. And so Marv was in this horrible conundrum of, What do I do? I'm a lyric guy, and I can't, we can't do this if these are the lyrics. And so he...
Valerie: Oh, that, that is a really hard place to be.
Rindy: Oh my gosh. Because we wanted the gig so much but...
Valerie: And here are these two people who are like, you know the mountain top of songwriting.
Rindy: So he ends up asking Burt Bacharach if he could tweak the lyric on the verses some and Burt said sure. And Marv did and submitted them. And evidently, Carol Bayer Sager was so angry. And our person Carole Childs went to bat for Marv, but she had this thing with her close friend! Over Marv getting his way on the lyric. So it ended up being a cowrite.
Valerie: Amazing.
Rindy: I know. I know. Anyway, so Carol was wonderful. Later on, the A&R person that we worked with briefly at Epic Records was also great, Don Grierson, but he got fired right as our record was coming out a record called Girl In The Wind, and because he got fired all of his projects were shelved. And so this thing that we had worked on for two years was just all of a sudden put on the shelf, and they wouldn't allow us to buy it. So we were done.
Valerie: So that's how it all ended.
Rindy: Well, that is how it ended, and we decided that we did not want to seek another label. We came home to Portland. It felt like our writing, and our creativity was not our own. And we had no control over it after that experience. We decided that we were going to come back and self produce, and kind of lick our wounds and decide what comes next. And that's what we did. Yeah. And that's how the Trail Band got started. Just a real huge left turn.
Valerie: So two things happened after your record deal ended. You and Marv switched gears creatively completely and formed the Trail Band. And then, I think you also went back to school and got your masters in psychology and started working in the field of counseling. Is that right?
Rindy: Yes. My masters was in counseling. And that very much had to do with that feeling of wanting to be in control of my own life and my work life. But also that feeling again of wanting to be an educator, a helper, which had me really driven me in the first place. Once I finished with my master's program, I worked with employee assistance program type counseling, which is short term counseling that is offered by companies for their employees. And I loved that format because it was often the first counseling people had ever had and so they brought all sorts of you know life issues and work issues and marriage issues and family issues...
Valerie: In terms of relationships, that's such a different kind of experience than anything that you would find in the music business.
Rindy: Very, very different. But I loved it, and I did it for 15 years.
Valerie: I didn't realize it was for that long. Yeah. That's incredible. Now some people would probably wonder, Why did she go back to work at all? They had this platinum record. They had all this success... Why go back and do a day job? Even if you feel called to do it.
Rindy: Well, two things. I think that and most people that have good fortune as far as making enough money that they are getting you know, some songwriter royalties or whatever on-going, they don't just stop working or finding things that have meaning for them. Because you know, you can only ride around on a sailboat and...
Valerie: Eat bonbons and drink champagne...
Rindy: For so long until you go. Is this making me happy?
Valerie: Right. Right. And you have a penchant for wanting to be useful too.
Rindy: Yes, I do. Right. So there was that. But also one of the things that a lot of people don't know is that when you make a record with a record company, they pay for everything and then you have to recoup the costs that they incur with your recordings before you ever make any money on the sales of the records. And so people think, well, you're just making a whole lot of money. And fortunately, as a songwriter, Marv was able to get songwriters royalties, but we were not getting royalties from the sales of the record because we had spent a lot, like on the France situation etcetera. So those were expensive records. And so we needed work.
Valerie: Yeah, yeah. That is something that I think people don't realize about record companies and why even today, the record companies can be important, and they can be a good partner in your music. And I think there are some record companies that are on the smaller side that artists can have more of a say in their own creativity. But yeah, they have costs and the artist is the one that gets to pay them. I remember having a dream back when we were on tour in 1986 that I came home from the tour, and I got a check for a dollar. Cause we lost money on tour, you know. And we weren't making any money yet on the songwriting piece. And thank God, you know, that Marv, your husband Marv and my husband John wrote these songs and kept the publishing, the songwriters part anyway. And so yeah. Because the performers now through a thing called Sound Exchange can make some money, but that's performance royalties, and that's not radio, and that's not songwriting royalties. So they're all different. Publishing's an interesting thing. And if you are lucky enough to have a song that does well, being the songwriter on that song is golden. It's a really wonderful, wonderful thing. Your record deal ended. You and Marv switched gears, and you went back to school. We just talked about that piece. And then you also started a band called the Trail Band. So what was that time period like for you?
Rindy [00:41:11] The genesis of the Trail Band was that Marv was asked to write a play, a musical about the Oregon Trail experience because Oregon was going to be celebrating the sesquicentennial of the Oregon Trail, which I didn't even know what that meant. But it's one hundred and fifty years.
Valerie [00:41:33] I'm impressed that you can even say that word.
Rindy: I know. I had to slow down and... Yeah. And so he got excited about that because it was so different from what we had been doing. And he did write this musical and put together a band to be part of the musical. There were actors and an eight-piece band that was strings and brass and just very kind of of the era type sounding of the 1840s through 1860 or so, influenced by Stephen Foster. And so it was kind of one of those things that we did the musical and toured around Oregon with you know these crazy actors and this crazy band. And it was really, really fun. And the actors you know went on to the next project and we had had such a good time with the band that we decided, Well, let's kind of stay together and we have to call ourselves something. Let's... Well, The Trail Band. Which is really, to this day, such a hokey name, but it stuck.
Valerie: It's such a great blend of different things, and the musicians in the band are really wonderful.
Rindy: Amazing musicians.
Valerie: Amazing musicians. And you recorded a total of 13 albums. That's incredible.
Rindy: Yeah. And really about half of those turned into holiday albums because that kind of became a wonderful niche that the band played these shows in December every year where we would combine kind of old-timey Christmas stuff with originals and some jazz. And because the musicians are so amazing that in some ways it was like the Seafood Mama experience where it was a bit all over the map, but it seemed to delight the audience. So we felt very blessed to have that experience.
Valerie: You had some great special guests on your Christmas shows...
Rindy: Including you and your mom.
Valerie: That was so sweet. That was so sweet. You know Malcolm had just been born — I think the year before. And it was my first show, or second maybe since he had been born and I just remember being so freaked out. Cuz I was like... I don't know. It just had been awhile. It's funny how even if you played a million gigs, if you take some time off it's hard to get, it's hard to get that muscle going again. So... But I had a great time. I had a great time on your show.
Rindy: It was great having you.
Valerie: So working with Marv. People ask me all the time, and it's not my favorite question you know, What's it like to work with your husband? But I think of it a little bit differently. Because you guys have been together for how many years now?
Rindy: Four hundred. No, but nearly. We are at, let's see, we are at forty-eight. We will have our forty-eighth anniversary this year.
Valerie: Of knowing each other of being married?
Rindy: Being married!
Valerie: Oh, my goodness. So you knew each other...
Rindy: We were babies.
Valerie: You've known each other longer than forty-eight years. Because we just celebrated our forty-fourth anniversary, but it's the forty-fourth anniversary of us knowing each other. That's when we met, and then we lived in sin for seven years, and then we got married. So you're saying 48 years of marriage...
Rindy: 52 years altogether.
Valerie: Holy mackerel.
Rindy: I know. We met in high school.
Valerie: What does your relationship as collaborators look like, and how has that relationship changed over the years?
Rindy: You know I think why it has endured, our marriage, as well as our collaborative work, is because we have different strengths, and we kind of don't tread too much on the other person's territory. He is the songwriter. I am more of an editor for him. He tends to write 20 verses to get three and, and I will help him hone it down, so he listens to me there. But I don't mess too much with his songwriting, and he allows me to interpret pretty much the way I want to. And so... The singing part. And he's not a singer. He has sung and does sing on stage because I love it when he does, but he's not a confident singer. But sometimes he's the best person to sing his songs. And so I have been his voice, and he has been my writer.
Valerie: That's really cool. That sounds like a great division of labor, and neither one of you aspires to take over the other person's job. It's been a really wonderful marriage in terms of the music I have to say. One of my favorite records that you guys have made is called Goodbye Uncle Buzz, and I just love it. The chords are interesting, and again, the stories are front and center and so well told. I read that when you were recording this record, and this is I don't know back in the 2000s, I think you released that record? That you approached it differently in the studio than you ever had before and recorded your voice and guitar first and then put everything else around it.
Rindy: We did. We had a click so that we wouldn't drive ourselves crazy as far as lining things up tempo-wise. But you're right. We did just the voice and Marv's guitar so very bare-bones and then slowly adding things. Sometimes then subtracting them because sometimes bare-bones is better. Yeah, sometimes less is more. And it was a really fun experience, and I did a lot of the harmony washes myself — just layering various intervals on top of what came before. And so then I was getting yayas from all the harmony stuff, and it was very fun.
Valerie When you get to sing with yourself and create those harmonies, and it's just... I don't know... shimmers. I like all the songs on that record. It spent a lot of time in rotation in my car. But one of the things that one of the songs that I really especially love the lyrics for is a song called Crazy Quilt. And I just wanted to read a little bit of it if you don't mind.
I've been walking in the mornings with my worried friend. And she's been working on this crazy quilt for months on end. And she's fighting with the colors and the stitches and the padding and the backing and the chemo in her hands. And she's piecing it together, the best that she can. And these quilts that she's made they cover all her walls. She's run out of places to put them, and she says, What do I do? What do I do with them all? I don't know who I am. And she's piecing it together, the best that she can. And she's piecing it together, the best that she can. And it's all we know. So we sing and sew the best we can. Just keep walking, keep on talking up and down these hills. Just keep singing, keep believing in this crazy quilt. I've been walking in the mornings with my worried friend, and I've been working on these crazy songs for months on end. And I'm fighting with the meaning, and the meter, and the voicings and the choices in my hands, and I'm piecing it together the best that I can.
Valerie: Tell me about how you approached telling the story.
Rindy: Marv has this ability to make me cry a lot with his lyrics.
Valerie: Oh good, so I'm not the only one.
Rindy: Oh, no, no. And when he brought this song these lyrics to me I... it took a while for me to be able to sing it without crying because I am a cancer survivor and one of the things that got me through my experience was my neighbors walking with me after, as much as I could. It was shortened distances when I was on chemo, but walking the neighborhood, just trying to be outside, trying to get through this. And then one of my co-workers, excuse me, one of my co-walkers also got breast cancer, and then it was her turn, and we were supporting her. Up and down those hills. And he took the metaphor of the crazy quilt, and I thought it just fit so well. But it took me a while to be able to just, OK, I'm going to sing this song. I'm going to deliver these lyrics. And instead of every time singing it, I had to take in exactly what it was about. I had to get past that in order to perform it.
Valerie: It's almost like you have to divorce yourself from the song sometimes in order to be able to be the storyteller. It's a tough balance, isn't it? Like being open... Like having your heart crack open enough to to have all of that that's in there be a part of it but not overwhelm you. You did a great job, I think. I just I'm reading it I'm not even singing it, and I'm bawling, you know. Anyway. Yeah. Well done. And I'm so glad that you survived.
So in terms of songs that he's written and how you've interpreted them, do you approach original songs versus cover songs differently, and has your process changed at all over the years?
Rindy: With the exception of some songs that we've done at Christmas that are traditional Christmas songs, I don't do cover songs, which is really interesting. I am totally lame at knowing cover songs. Even classic songs I have to have a fake book in front of me to know the lyrics because I haven't sung cover songs in so many years. Really since Seafood Mama. We just don't do any. We sometimes would do a Dylan song like in Quarterflash just as an encore as this tribute to him. But mostly it's just all Marv's songs.
Valerie: That is very different. And so you're not using a model of any kind because your voice, I mean besides maybe Marv doing a demo for you, your voice is the first one that's interpreting the song, so you don't have all these other voices in your head as you're trying to create your own version.
Rindy: You know, I really haven't thought much about that. But you're absolutely right. And in some ways, it is because I'm the first one it is... It frees you up a lot because you're right. You often compare yourself to the iconic version of that song, whether it's a classic or a rock classic. So yeah. Yeah.
Valerie: Do you have a way in to learning these songs? How does your relationship with them go? I know every song is different. So that might be a hard question but...
Rindy: Well, I think the direction that Marv gives me is part of how I start out because he allows me to mess with the melody a little bit too. He's not really attached to his every note being as he originally thought of it. If I can come up with something that he thinks sells the song better, he says, Yeah, go do that. So that's great. But also I think there are times when he wants it to be more narrating the story without it being emotional, which is not the way I would approach it. I would maybe want it to be more theatrical. But for him, there have been a few times when he said, No, I just want the lyric to move people, not you over-amping it. I want it to sell it. And he's been right that sometimes just understated can be a powerful thing.
Valerie: So that usually, that kind of direction actually gives you...
Rindy: Yeah. It gives me a window.
Valerie: A container.
Rindy: Yeah. Yeah.
Valerie: Sounds like his direction is kind enough that it lands pretty well with you.
Rindy: Yeah, I mean he's had a lot of time to know what sets me off and how I take in information and so he's gotten really good at it.
Valerie: That's really cool. And that's actually... I mean for anybody out there listening, that is also a producer's job with a singer you know. To let them do the thing that they do best but also sometimes provide a structure that supports them and the song in a way that's better. But how producers give direction, I mean... Or how you get that feedback, I know for me it can make or break the experience that I have. But sometimes I've had some lousy experiences recording and the actual record turned out great. So I don't know... How you feel in the moment matters, but sometimes what gets on the actual recording you don't hear that.
Rindy: It transcends it. Yes. Yes, that's very true. I've had the same experience.
Valerie: Interesting. If you could go back in time and talk to a younger version of yourself, what would you say to her?
Rindy: I would say that you need to stop worrying so much. And that I need to trust myself more and that every decision is not monumental. That the sun will come up even if I screw up. Because I tend to be pretty hard on myself. And as I've gotten older, I've definitely gotten better about saying no when no is what I mean. Or sometimes saying yes when I've been afraid to say yes. So I think that goes along with maybe telling myself it's good to take risks and try things that I think might be out of my wheelhouse. You know? Because I have had good experiences of trying something and, Oh, I guess it's, you know, it's OK. It's even fun. And I think the other thing I would tell myself, and this is also something that I think comes with age, is that it's really great to surround yourself really as much as possible with people that like to laugh.
Rindy: Surrounding yourself with people that are positive is so important that... There have been times I think when I have held on to relationships where... that maybe were a little bit one-sided or where I just kept trying to muddle through darkness, and I have learned that you know maybe it's really okay to just say well it's time to move on and I need to surround myself with light and laughter. And that's certainly what I am trying to do in my older years for sure.
Valerie: That's lovely.
Rindy: And this is... this is obviously a lifelong endeavor but...
Valerie: Absolutely.
Rindy: Yeah. It's not something you learn once and go, Oh good. And I'm done with that. It's like something that you have to keep reminding yourself over and over. Stop worrying. Let it go. Go hang out with and laugh, you know? It always helps.
Valerie: There's a great song on Uncle Buzz called Rise Above. And I love the chorus. Can I read it?
Rindy: Sure.
Valerie: Love isn't having the things that we want; it's wanting the things we have. Life is deciding whether we cry or laugh. Oh, remember you're a part of the moon and the stars. A part of those you love. Oh, hold onto these things. They're your wings to rise above.
Valerie: So one last question. You're in a huge transitional time. You and Marv have just put Quarterflash to bed and the Trailband. You've been doing that for more than 30 years. What's next?
Rindy: What is next is that Marv has found a friend that is a great male voice for him, which is really exciting. It's actually really exciting for both of us because there are some songs of Marvs that he sings, but he's never been comfortable as a singer so that I couldn't deliver them. They're really, they're a guy song. And so John Koonce is working with Marv as far as doing some songs that are in that category. And then he and I have another project that is just the two of us that we are about halfway finished with, of a bunch of new songs of his that just absolutely knock me out. I'm so proud of him. So that is what we're working on. And he and I are just gonna do a bunch of duo type performances. Small venue house concerts. It's not about money but just about... It's about the music and conveying these new songs. So we're pretty excited about it. It's like a new chapter.
Valerie: A new adventure together. I'm so glad that he's still writing songs, and that you're still interpreting them and that we get to hear more from both of you. It's a lovely thing. So thank you again for being here today. We made it even through the snow and all kinds of stuff. But it's been lovely having you.
Rindy: Thank you so much. I enjoyed doing this.
MORE PODCAST EPISODES
SUPPORT
If you’d like to support the podcast, please buy me a (virtual) coffee! Your contribution (the price of a steaming cup of java) will fuel the price of this website, the apps I use for creation, and the 40-plus hours it takes to create each episode. Thank you!
