Episode #1 Moana Wolfgramm from The Jets

Interviews

Sep 27

Welcome to Living A Vocal Life: A Podcast For Singers!

Welcome to the Living A Vocal Life Podcast, where I interview singers who have succeeded in creating a life in music. You’ll hear from vocalists of all genres, in different stages of their careers, including singers who’ve been on the Billboard charts and those who are teaching the next generation. What do they have in common? They're all performers with amazing stories to tell and experiences to share.

In our conversations, you’ll learn what inspired them to become a singer, the kinds of challenges they’ve encountered, and how they've overcome them. I'll also share what I've learned on my own journey as a singer and educator — practical tools and insights that will help you to live your best, most authentic vocal life.

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Moana Wolfgramm from The 80s band The Jets sings into a cordless mic dressed in white with gold jewelry.

In this episode, I talk with my very first guest on the podcast, Moana Wolfgramm, from the 80s band The Jets. I first met Moana when we were on tour together in 1986. She was just 12 years old, traveling around the country in a tour bus with her seven siblings. The Jets were on their first world tour, which had started in 1985 after the release of their platinum-selling record on MCA "The Jets." From 1985 to 1990, the band accumulated eight top-10 singles. "Crush On You," — which peaked at number three in July of 1986, probably bumped our song off the charts!

You'll hear what being in a band with your seven siblings is like and how losing a gig and being stranded in Minneapolis led to the group landing a record deal. In the early 90s, The Jets fell off the charts. It was then that Moana re-discovered herself through the love of family and simple living in Hawaii and discovered what success means to her.

“You’ll never be able to satisfy that urge for success if you’re looking just for the stars and the fame. It’s got to be something more so that it sustains you longer. To me it’s relationships and it’s being happy in your own skin.
”

— Moana Wolfgramm

Links:

You can find Moana on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

The song from today’s episode is called Pride and is from The Jet’s latest CD, “The Jets Reunited” (used with permission.) To listen or download, go HERE.

Theme music for the Podcast was composed by John Smith. He edits all the podcast episodes too. (Thanks, honey!)

Valerie: So, you've decided to make singing your vocation. Now what? You may be struggling to balance your life and a career in music. Are you curious about how other singers make it or how they've dealt with success and failure? Do you wonder what their biggest challenges have been? Or how about what they've learned on their journey and what's most important to them today.
Hi, I'm Valerie Day — a singer educator and creative explorer. You might know me from my work with the Grammy-nominated band Nu Shooz. In this podcast, I interview singers who have succeeded in creating a life in music. You'll hear from vocalists of all genres in different stages of their careers, including singers who've been on the Billboard charts and those who are teaching the next generation. What do they have in common? They're all performers with amazing stories to tell and experiences to share.
In our conversations, you'll learn what inspired them to become a singer, the kinds of challenges they've encountered and how they've overcome them. They'll also share the one thing they believe will help you to live your best most authentic vocal life.
Today I'll be talking with my very first guest on this podcast, Moana Wolfgramm from the 80s band The Jets. I first met Moana when we were on tour together in 1986. She was just 12 years old, traveling around the country in a tour bus with her seven siblings. The Jets were on their first world tour which had started in 1985 after the release of their platinum-selling record on MCA "The Jets." From 1985 to 1990 the band accumulated eight top 10 singles. "Crush On You" — which peaked at number three in July of 1986, probably bumped our song off the charts!
Moana and I reconnected over a year ago when we found ourselves on Alan Beck's Super Freestyle Explosion tour. Her voice still thrills me, and her take on life as a singer is one that I know you're going to enjoy. So thank you Moana for being here on my very first podcast.
Moana: Yes, thank you for having me. I feel pretty honored and excited to do this with you.
Valerie: Well, thanks for being here. I guess in my mind you were going to be the first guest always because some of the conversations that we'd had on the road about what it's like to be a singer and the different ways that this kind of career impacts your life — I don't know, I just loved your take on it. And you've had such an extraordinary life. I mean you're —the intro just barely scratches the surface of what you've done. But I want to start kind of in a different place. I wanted to find out what your first memory of singing is.
Moana: Wow, that's a good question. I think when I was about four years old is kind of the first time our family started doing entertainment. And I think I was about seven. We learned a Donny and Marie song, a duet that my sister Elizabeth and I did. About seven years old. Always watched my mother singing she was actually the original lead singer of our family band, and she sang everything from Donna Summers to you know Olivia Newton-John and all of that. But I was about seven years old, when we started singing, and we were all intrigued with Olivia Newton-John. My mother listened to her and Anne Marie and Captain & Tenille — all those were kind of her favorites.
Valerie: So how did that family band get started?
Moana: My parents are immigrants from the islands of the South Pacific called Tonga - it's the smallest island kingdom in the South Pacific, and they immigrated to America in 1965. They were both always very musical; in fact, our culture is very musical, and they had ten children and were struggling to find a way to raise their family. Along the way, they had always done Polynesian music on the side, and because of this big intrigue with Hawaii and Elvis and Polynesian music they were able to get work. They were struggling to figure out how to raise their ten children. I was the eighth in the family, and they stumbled on watching a variety show with the Jacksons and the Osmonds. And they had ten kids, and my dad was like OK the light went off in his head, and he said, "We're musical. You know our kids learn fast." And that's kind of how we got our start. My parents sat us down — I was pretty young, so it's my older siblings they remember a lot more — they sat us down in a family home evening and said we've got to decide what we're going to do as a family. Are we going to do our landscaping business and just do yard work because that's what my dad did, or are we going to pick music and do something as a family? And I guess the vote was music and everybody put their heads together. My dad was one of those interesting characters in the neighborhood where he didn't speak very good English, but he was always a determined person. So he went off to a music store, purchased a whole bunch of instruments, brought 'em home, set it up, and nobody knew how to play anything. Just my mom knew how to play the guitar. And he said, "If we can start a band then we can do this together. And you know we all have the talent. It's in our blood." And he started with my brother Leroy who was the oldest. Took my mom, he went with my mom and her she had a little island band that they used to go to. And he picked up guitar off of her and then on the radio and then kind of learned the bass, the drums, the keyboards and then my dad assigned everybody else an instrument. Elizabeth and I at the time were kind-of the youngest ones, and we just sang and danced and that's kind of how our family got our start.
We started doing all kinds of Christmas parties, luaus, senior citizen homes, and anything we could do to get the family to perform together and that's how we made our living. Eventually, our parents took us on the road and bought a rundown motor home and just took us across the west coast, especially up into Canada. Everyone thought he was crazy. And pretty much that's how we got our start. We were a bunch of gypsy kids kind-of, just traveling with our parents you know, working, making gigs. And all his family thought he was nuts, but he could see something that nobody else could. And that's kind of how we got our start.
Valerie: Wow, that's it's such an amazing story. Because unlike a lot of people you didn't go through that, and I'm assuming this — maybe you did later, but you didn't go through this period of time of trying to figure out like, "What am I going to do with my life?" I mean you just —you were born, and you were doing it, you know before you even knew what "it" was. It was just like yeah, life.
Moana: It was. It's like it's a good and bad thing because you know I guess you're right. Now that I'm a mother myself we're trying to help our children find an avenue that they're interested in, or you know, really help their talents. Our parents kind-of just zeroed in on something and went for it and for that I'm kind of grateful. I think in the beginning everyone was super shy. All of us were naturally kind of more on the shy side. But my sister Elizabeth had this big voice from her little body. And everyone was always amazed that she could sound just like Olivia Newton-John. And I was kind of her sidekick. They were she was afraid to be on the stage in front of people, and I was her like her best buddy. We were just a year apart. And so I'd sing backgrounds or harmonize with her, and that's how we got kind of started like that. But you're right. Our parents picked a path for us and said: "If we're gonna do it, we're going to do it head-on and go for it." So yeah, I guess in that way it's it was a blessing that they gave us an avenue, and it actually turned out. You know, like I know a lot of families just start a band, and then they laugh about it later and say, "Oh yeah, we had a family band — it was pretty funny." But for us, it was fortunate that we were able to hone that craft and turn it into something that we would have never dreamed of could happen.
Valerie: And the story of how it actually happened is amazing to me. I mean, we were just with you — John and I playing in Guam — which was an amazing thing that we got to go there with you and do a show. And part of my fondest memories of that trip was hearing more stories about how things happened for you guys way back in the 80s. Because when I first met you, you know you were a teenager and there was a lot going on. So we were touring together, but I didn't really get to know you because I was about 15 years older, I think.
Moana: Yeah. And you know when we're on the road we don't really... the artists, it's just performance — next show, next city and so much... You're right. So much is going on.
Valerie: Yeah. Too much going on. And you just gotta get back on the bus and do it all over again. So it's kind of like waving across the parking lot is what we end up doing.
Moana: See you in the next city!
Valerie: Exactly. So I just loved finding out all this backstory about how things happened for you. And one of the most amazing pieces of it I think is when you were traveling all around the country doing these Polynesian shows for these hotels that had Polynesian night, or something like that, or like a whole weekend where you could go and if you were, you know, a family that couldn't afford to go to Hawaii, you could go to the nearby hotel and have the experience of going to Hawaii. Can you tell us more about that?
Moana: Sure. When we About early 80s there was a contract offer to my parents. They were looking for a Polynesian revue show because they had just opened up these Hawaiian Inn hotels and there was a chain of them and the Midwest — Iowa, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin. And people that couldn't afford to go all the way to Hawaii would come to the Hawaiian Inn, and they wanted to be able to bring them a little piece of Hawaii. So our family would be the hosts. We would show up in the front lobby when their bus would roll in, and we give them leis, and then they'd come and stay, and it'd be this whole tropical theme. And then one of the evenings would be a luau. My dad and my brothers would roast a pig, and they would work with the chefs to have like a big catering Polynesian style. And then we were the review show. We would put on a big Polynesian show for them. And we did this for two years. We lived in the hotels, and we would travel from a hotel in like Des Moines to North Dakota to Minneapolis, you know to different places in Iowa. And unfortunately the hotel, you know, the idea didn't really stick with people. I think they really want to go to the islands. And after that, the hotel chain went bankrupt, and we were stranded in Minneapolis. We didn't really know what to do but the very last hotel, the owners felt pretty bad for us, and they said, "You can probably work here, but we've noticed that before your Polynesians show you guys do like a Top 40 set. If you could stick with the top 40 set we'll let you guys perform in our lounge on the weekends, you know. And then if it does well, we'll let you come on the weekdays." So that's what our family did. We kind of ditched the Polynesian revue and then concentrated on being a top 40 band. We were called "The Polynesian Pearls," and we were looking for a new name. And our brothers — we were all big fans of Earth Wind and Fire you know, the big silver get-up like space outfits. And our brothers are like, "We got to find a name that sounds really cool." And they found the name Quasar. It kind of sounded like the most powerful force in the universe — Quasar. And we come out in these big shiny outfits that our mom made, and we became a Top 40 band. And we ended up just kind of doing the circuit in Minneapolis and St. Paul. Just running any lounge we could get to. Surprisingly we did really well. They were shocked that we were the ages we were. I think I was about nine eight or nine, and my brother was 15 or 16, and we could go into a nightclub, and we could cover songs from Journey to Olivia Newton-John to Midnight Star. We were doing everything we could in... you know we would change it up depending on what characters walk in the door. If it was a guy with a cowboy hat we'd pull out some Ricky Skaggs and Willie Nelson and we would change it up. But we had a little name for ourselves in the cities as a really good variety band. But yeah, that's kind of how we got stranded in Minneapolis.
Valerie: Which actually turned out to be the best place for you to get stranded because of Don Powell.
Moana: Yes. We were doing Top 40 music in the Twin Cities, and one of our local agents had said, "Hey, there's a guy that used to work for Motown Records. He's retired and selling cars at a dealership." And we used to see his infommercial at night selling Ford vans and cars. And they said, "If you can get him to come and see you maybe he'll have a connection." And you know, we were too young to really understand everything. It's just my dad would say, "There's a guy we need to get a-hold of. He has the connections." So our agents reached out. He wouldn't answer. We tried to reach him, and he wouldn't answer. And I think we've caught him off guard and called him and he couldn't find an excuse and said, "Fine. Where are the kids performing at?" And it happened to be just a few blocks from his home in Maple Grove, Minnesota. So Don Powell came out to see us.
He was a retired Motown rep who was Stevie Wonder's first manager and also David Bowie's. So he comes out to see us thinking he'll just, you know, mark it off his list. And he was kind of shocked at the talent from one family — he couldn't believe it was all brothers and sisters. And then he was shocked at the voices that would come out of the two girls. And he was just like, "That's crazy. She sounds amazing. They sound so mature for their age." So he came back a second night without us knowing and snuck in and kind of watched us from the side. And he was like, yep that's the voice. And he called us back and said, "You know what — maybe we should meet. He was impressed that we were a self-contained band and had a voice said Elizabeth had the most mature voice and I was kind of singing with her. And that's kind of how he ended up signing us as a management deal. And it worked out great because Prince had just come on the scene with Purple Rain and record companies had been kind of looking into Minneapolis. They were there ready and tired of being in L.A. in New York and came and looked into Minneapolis and was just looking at new artists a new style of music. And while Don Powell packaged us and got us ready to pitch to a different record companies MCA records stumbled on us. The guy's names were Gerald Busby and Lowell Silus, and eventually, we were signed to MCA records. I was about ten years old, and Leroy was about 18.
Valerie: Wow.
Moana: Yeah, it's... It's weird, and Minneapolis was perfect for us.
Valerie: As they say, sometimes these things that look bad when they happen, end up being the best thing ever. I mean, you know, from — Oh wow. OK. We just lost our main gig, and we have nowhere to really go. And what are we going to do? To Quasar! I love the story about Earth Wind and Fire — because we are big Earth Wind and Fire fans too. And just the fact that your mom made those costumes and you came out, and you were all you know the show is happening, and your brother's found this name. I hadn't heard that story before either. It's fabulous.
Moana: Well, unfortunately, Quasar didn't stick. Our manager said it sounds too much like a TV set. But I think he could get the gist of what we were going for.
Valerie: Yeah. I can totally picture it.
Moana: Yes. He said, "We gotta find you a name. But what is your last name?" And our last name was Wolfgramm. It's German. Our German ancestors came to the Polynesian islands and married Polynesian women. They were merchants. And that's how we got Wolfgramm as our last name. But he said, "None of you look German, and we've got to find you a name that sticks." And he was coming up for a show to watch us and heard "Benny and the Jets" on the radio by Elton John. And he said, "I found the name. The Jets - that's going to be the name." He said it was short. Easy to say. You could stick it on merchandise. A button, a shirt, you know a hat. And that people could chant — it'd be easy for them to chant. And that's how we got the name The Jets.
Valerie: So you guys performed basically your whole lives. When did this run with the Jets end?
Moana: Well, we were with MCA records and did seven albums — seven CDs with MCA. And I think it came to an end right around 1990 - 1991. You know The Jets came out in 1985 and we are so fortunate to have two albums that did really well for us and that it sprung off 8 top tens in different areas was great. But our manager had mentioned to us that there's gonna kind of come a time when radio is going to have to take a break from The Jets and that there's gonna be new people on the scene and New Kids On The Block. Which is really funny because you know, we had, we'd gone to Boston and done a few shows there and one of the shows they said there's this New Kids group. They're really excited. Thank you for letting them perform with you. They'd love to meet you. They're called the New Kids On The Block. And we met them, and two months later we were warming up for them. They had just risen to the top of the charts with their first and second single. And just like that, you know Don had been correct. You know the business is a very interesting kind of a business. And when you're kids it's like a circus — you're on tour and then suddenly MCA dropped us in I think 1991. And then we had to figure out what we're going to do after that.
Valerie: Yeah, it's not an easy thing. And even if you kind of know it's going to happen and somebody's warned you that the trajectory of a pop star is like up and then down, you know, you just don't know what that feels like until it actually happens. And you've been on this incredible ride. I mean that's a lot of records to make. And you guys were on TV and toured all the time. And it was - it's an extraordinary run.
Moana: Yes. So you definitely understand that.
Valerie: Yeah, I totally do. Except that when it happened to me, I was in my 20s. I was 27 when we got a record deal. And that's a very different vantage point. I'd had a lot of years to...
Moana: Yeah, that's true.
Valerie: I'd had a lot of years to figure out who I was and sort of something to... You know I kept telling myself, "OK. I know that this isn't going to last forever so... and who am I without it? You know like it when it does end, am I still going to be OK?" You know? Because a lot of people they have real trouble with that.
So the Jets stop performing and then you got married...
Moana: Right. So we come out. Yeah. A bunch of kids - a bunch of kids. But they come out, and I'm about, I'm about ten years old, and my oldest brother Leroy is 19. By the time The Jets are dropped from our record company, I'm 16 -17 years old and just starting and we're done. You know they've moved on to a whole new set of artists, and the Jets are kind of on the way out. And so for someone at that age at the vantage point of being like in your teens, you're just getting your life started. So our career ends at 18 when all my friends are just getting off to college. I was out of school and being tutored from age eleven until you know 16, 17 and all my friends who've gotten to go to school they're just so ready to get out of the house and finally find their dreams and come through it and we are... Here we are like oh we don't have a career anymore, and we didn't have anything set up for a future you know. Our parents had always just thought music, music, music, and they were immigrants as well and nothing else. And then you hit 17, 18 and you're suddenly back in the lounges, in the casino showrooms — the little bars and clubs. And yeah, it's just a huge different arrangement for what happens, and that's what I mean by the business can really...
Valerie: Yeah.
Moana: It's you know fame is one thing, the success is one thing, and then we've got this family dynamic where it's the only thing that makes money for our growing family. And take in mind, The Jets were the eight oldest in the family. So we had nine younger siblings.
Valerie: My goodness.
Moana: And our parents were continuing to have kids while we were on tour. So you've got 15 to 17 siblings and parents whose only goal is to have our family do this. And then the pressure starts to weigh on you. No record company so there's no support financially, there's no push for music. We're having issues with our management now and wondering where the funds are going because we've stopped touring, and you've moved into a bigger home with your big family and now how do we pay the mortgage? The reality sets in and you're 18 and they don't have any other plans for you but we've got to go gig. We've got to go find another gig.
Valerie: Wow. And so how do you cope?
Moana: You know what we were just... We were so loyal we never asked questions. We just worked, worked, worked. We ended up switching managers, and our brothers managed us and our parents. And it just went back to the pre-Don Powell days where nobody really knew where to start. As kids, when you walked into the record company, we walked under the wings of our manager, and we never made real connections with anybody in the business. So once we got dropped, it was like we really didn't know anyone. We were kind of like, "Well, we're going to have to go back to Minneapolis."
Valerie: I so know this story. You know one of the biggest things. I mean I'm sorry to interrupt you right there but...
Moana: No. Go ahead.
Valerie: It Was such a big takeaway for me — and for us — in our career too because we were busy being the artists — which is a wonderful thing.
Moana: And everybody else is doing everything for you.
Valerie: Right. And you want them to - especially after you've struggled for a number of years without a manager, without a record company, and doing it all yourselves. It's like, OK. Yay, they're taking over! This is good. But it is all about relationships. And so if you don't build relationships within the company, with the agents, with the managers, with the promoters with everyone then when things fall apart you don't have those relationships either.
Moana: Absolutely. Yep, that's totally right, and that's really what happened to us. Our manager before he left and stopped managing us had offered to do a bunch of hotel showrooms, and he said, "You know, there's a lot of groups that go through the peaks and valleys of the business. But I have an opportunity to keep you busy for a whole year. You'll make a good amount of money, and you'll be able to sustain yourself as a family." But our brothers at the time were like, "Well, we're so used to doing arenas and big theaters that we're too big for these little hotel showrooms" and passed on his offer. And in return, he said, "There are groups bigger than you that are doing these. This is how they sustain themselves." And yeah, it was kind of a downfall from there. You get it to a big high, and you get all the attention and the success, and then you hit the lowest of lows, and you're back in the weirdest places in Podunk towns doing shows in these bars, and people come in who know you and say, "What are you guys doing here?"
Valerie: Right.
Moana: And yeah it's like this humiliating change you know? But that's all you know. That was my story. When you're 12, 11 and that's all you've done for the first five-six years of your life from 12 to like 18 you don't know anything else. You've been so busy that your life well, the only thing we even know to do is to get a gig. I don't think we can go to college. If we do, then the family doesn't thrive. It was a lot of pressure for me and my sister because we were both the lead singers of the band... to remain in the family band and to remain in the business. But it was falling apart all around us.
Valerie: That's a lot of pressure to have at that young age. And the thing that's amazing to me about your story and who I know you to be now is how you've navigated success. And then the contrast between that incredible ride that you had in your career early on. And then you took a 10-year break completely from singing at the end of this time period. Tell us a little bit about what that was like for you.
Moana: It was one of those things where we had worked on the Vegas Strip — not in the big showrooms just the little, you know the lounges where people are, you're just kind of the background music at 4:00 in the morning. We were doing these lounges and it just, we felt so depressed. Just go into these shows. We do four shows, four sets a night in these little lounges in Vegas. And you hit 19, 20 years old, and you're just like, "This is it?" And you're walking into smoky casinos, and nobody really cares that you're up there. You're just kind of there to get paid and do what the owner of the club wants you to do. And yeah you just kind of feel like there's nowhere to go.
During that time, it was very stressful for our family. And my sister Elizabeth who sang leads with me had been diagnosed with breast cancer. She had found a lump in one of her breasts, and it was kind of it was scary for her. I felt like it was a manifestation of just the stress we were all going through. And she was a very shy person. So I think it just manifested itself in a tumor. But because of that she immediately said, "I'm going in for surgery. When I come out, I'm not doing anything that stresses me out. I'm going to do what makes me happy, and I'm going to move on." And she had just gotten engaged, and my parents were really upset. I was stuck at leads. I picked up the leads and did them for a little while, and then we just had issues - financial issues. How do you raise this family? Aging parents that hadn't worked in years. We were the ones that were raking in the money as bread-winners. And she got married and moved on, and then a few years later I got married, and they lost their two front lead singers in the band. My brothers continued to try and revive a band with younger siblings, but they could really only get these small shows in these little clubs. So I ended up in Hawaii with my husband for ten years. And my sister Elizabeth was there for a while. Her husband's from Hawaii too. And then everyone just kind of took a break. Kathy was the keyboard player, Eddie's saxophone. Everyone took a break because it just wasn't working. And I think it's much needed when you're that young.
Valerie: Oh my goodness.
Moana: Cause you go through a full-on depression like you're going through a midlife crisis at 20 when you should be like, "Yay! I'm ready, you know - I'm ready to take on the world!"
Valerie: Right. Exactly. Very, very different trajectory than most people but it's similar in some ways. You know there's, everyone goes through this. I just can't imagine going through it at the ages that you guys were. It's incredible that you came out of it as whole as you did.
Moana: Yeah, I think that being a family was definitely a blessing for all of us. We were very close. We only had each other to begin with. So we hung on to each other's relationships, and that helped. And then we came from a faith where we just knew that God had given us a purpose and we just had to see what else He had in the cards for us. So those two things in mind I think just helped us move forward. We had some rocky relations with our siblings, but after ten years, we started to get that itch back. Like we just missed it. By that time I'd had six children. My sister Liz had seven. And I have a brother, the bass player Heidi that has 14 kids. And so we all still believed in family and relationships like that. So I think through the tough times — because we've been kind of like raised like gypsy kids on the road, we knew how to survive. So I know that that came into effect. Survivor mode was right into effect. Where we were just like, "Hey, we've been through rougher times than this, we'll be able to get through it." But when you have success and then you don't have success, the extreme difference can be tricky for people, and you beat yourself up when you think, "Oh, why can't I make this happen?" When really it's just, you know we were dealt a deck of cards and had this luck for a few years, and now we just have to take what we have and pick it up and then make the best of it with the experiences we have.
Valerie: That's exactly right. So that brings me to another question that I have for you. What did success look like to you back in the day, and what does it look like to you now?
Moana: Wow, it's definitely a stark difference. You, you work hard to make it with your dreams, and then you're given this blessing of being able to get music out, and people enjoy it, and you feel the immediate response from radio, fans, TV. And you feel the blessing of your hard work - the fruits of your hard labor. After success, I think it's more of like where is your character. Do you believe in yourself no matter if the success leaves you? And I think success today is you, to me — I need to be happy in my skin. I need to take the skills that I perfected or the things that I've really worked hard to and enjoy it and embrace it. And then just be happy with the circle that I'm able to influence, or the people that I'm around that still enjoy it. You know, kind of just enjoy the opportunities you have whether they're in an arena or whether they're just in your living room with your closest friends. Because you'll never be able to satisfy that urge for success if you're looking just for the stars and the fame, it's got to be something more so that it sustains you longer. And I think to me its relationships, and it's happy in your own skin, just being satisfied with where you're at — and then hoping that you can still find a way to make it enjoyable. If you can make some money still then great, if not if you can share it — whatever you've learned, your craft, then there's where you find your outlet. That's kind of what I feel success is today.
Valerie: Okay.
Moana: You're my first podcast interviewee and my last because you've just said exactly if you've just summarized the whole thing in a nutshell actually right there!
Moana: No, you can't. This is just the beginning. Yes.
Valerie: No, seriously. I mean because I think that's the biggest, that's the biggest takeaway right here is that you do have to know if you come to have to come to know yourself and appreciate and love who you are and be comfortable in your own skin. And that isn't an easy, easy thing to do. And it's definitely not an easy thing to do when the world is telling you one thing and then it goes right around and tells you the other thing. I mean you know it tells you you're the best thing since sliced bread and now. Oh yeah. No. You're moldy. You're oldy. We're outa here! You know? Yeah. And then I don't know. I feel like singers who aren't singing there is a part of you that's always depressed, you know? Well, and I know that — I mean ten years is a long time. You were busy though, I mean you had six kids during that time and a lot going on, but you needed that hiatus it sounds like. I mean you just needed that downtime. But when you came out of that period...
Moana: Yeah. I've never really known myself other than Moana of the Jets.
[DON'T YOU LIE music starts to come up underneath this next segment?]
So I married my husband moved to a little town in Hawaii - Laie, and it was just me, and my husband, and raising my kids. And I luckily married into a great family that kind of just wanted to see Moana. They just wanted to see me. And because your whole adolescent years are kind of taken away in the music business, it was really the first time that I was able to kind of see myself and be happy in my skin.
Luckily the islands do something to you. You take off you, you kind of shed yourself from all the show clothes and you put on some flip flops, and you walk on the beach, and you sit on the ocean looking at the sunset, and you just start to find yourself again. And that, that ten years was great for me. I had children, and I learned a little bit more of who I was. I had a husband who definitely was patient with me because I didn't know how to grow up. I just knew one way as an artist you know in my teens. So, he helped me come out of that and see what kind of woman I was turning into and really embraced me and encouraged me. And it was really him that talked me into getting back into music. I missed it, but I was — I hated the business of it. I love the music. Every time I'd hear someone sing I'd be like, "Oh I know that passion I feel, it" but I didn't want to get in the business because it tore — it kind of tore our family apart. But yeah after ten years he was the one that said, "You've got a voice. God gave you something. You've gotta let it out." And I'm like, "Well, I'm in my 30s. I don't know how to do that. I'm gonna be 40 soon - I don't really know how to do that. I feel like I've kind of wasted my time, and you know kind of lost my opportunity." And he said, "You could never lose your opportunity. If He gave you a gift, it's gotta be something that stays with you. It's just really up to you if you're going to, you know, make — enhance it, or if you're just gonna bottle it up and bury it away."
Valerie: And that's what I think is the thing when people do that, and they really are called to be singers, they have that gift, and they know that the music part of it is a part of who they are — when they bottle it away it just - it does make them sad. And even if they're not like, I've just seen this with students and within my own family and with myself too you know. I'll be like, "What's wrong with me?" In certain time periods of my life. I'm not as happy as I could be, and then when I start singing again, it's like, "Wow, this is one of the best things to do in the world." And especially with your siblings. Because there is nothing like other genetic material that's similar to yours for blend, you know, I mean... You, and Kathy and Elizabeth and Jennifer and...
Moana: Natalia Yeah.
Valerie: You all worked together and made another record. And I actually came across a little video. I think it was of you and Elizabeth and you must have been in Hawaii, and it was just the two of you singing. And the blend, and the warmth, and the love that came through in this recording... I'll just never forget because I just went, "Oh my God. They still sound great. In fact, they sound better than ever because of the life experience that they've had." You can hear it. You can feel it, you know? And you come back around full circle where you give yourself... and tell me if I'm right... You've taken time off to be able to take the business part and pry it loose from being embedded in the music part. And of course, now you're out on the road again and doing more tours and stuff like that. But it seems like the business part has a different place in your life. Is that right?
Moana: Yes. You hit it right on the head. You put your priorities in the right place the older you get. You just learn from your mistakes before. And when you're a kid, when you're 12, it's really hard when the producer says, "What is your take on this?" You know...what is your... It's like, "Well, I don't know. Just tell me how to sing." And they basically kind of produce you and say "Hey go up on this note that would sound cute." You try it. And then you try a note, and they're like, "Perfect!" And then they recorded it; it's a keeper. But the older you get it really has to come from an authentic place. So it's true the older you get which just really... And I've noticed that the older you get you're more willing to be, you're more bold because you've been through stuff. So then you're not afraid to express it with your voice. And it's true. All singers, when you're young, it's really easy to just let everybody else produce you because at 12 producers ask you what's your take on this song and you're kind of like well I don't know just tell me how to sing it. And that's kind of how we would do it when we first came out. But the older you get, the more experience you have, the more you're willing to take on, and you've been through stuff. So you, you're more brave, and you're more bold about how you're going to express yourself. So yeah, the older you get I think it just starts to get embedded in the way you sing.
I started singing with Gladys Knight's gospel choir. She would sit and tell us things, and then she would show us how she sings it. And all of us would sit there just in awe staring at her because her voice has so much depth in it. But it wasn't just that she had like learned a technique; you could hear the emotion in her voice. And when she said, "I need you to moan right there. Don't you feel that note? Listen to that word. You need to bring it alive. You are telling a story." I think as vocalists the older you get, the more you are... You've earned that. You've earned your stripes because you've been through some stuff. And for those singers that I believe are still out there looking for their dream, my worry is - and I have a lot of you know, young nieces and nephews that want to try it out in music - my worry is if they never make it are they going to beat themselves up. And my thing is the, you know when I tell their parents they're like, "What, what advice could you give our daughter?" I just, I always say, "Remember to make her believe in herself no matter what. Let her love her voice so much that if it never hits radio, she's so tuned in to who she is that she's at peace." Some people just live for what everybody else says, and if they don't get to win it in the world, they just feel like they were cut short. And then they just throw it away and say, "Oh, I can never be that." But if they own it they can — no one can take that away from them. No one can take that unique thing that they have.
Valerie: That's right. That's exactly right. And think of how many... I mean I always talk to my students about how you know — in the Olympics how many people win the medal? Three. Right? How many people are on the team? And how many people tried out for that team? And then how many people thought maybe they would want to know like there are all these people underneath those three people that in the world's eyes didn't win. But I hope they know that they did. Because they tried and they learned a ton from doing it. And they changed their bodies and their minds for the better. And who knows what they can do with those gifts to help other people later on in life. You know.
Moana: So true.
Valerie: For singers, I hope that it can be the same way. And that's what I... I mean your advice is just so spot on. In fact, I think I'm just going to write it down and hand it to people when they ask me, "What should I do? What should I do about my, you know, my niece, my daughter, my grandchild who wants to be an artist?" of any kind actually. Because it's a soul enterprise, you know. And actually, it's a life enterprise. It's a life learning. It's, it's not just about music at a certain point, it's about how to live your life. And if you're looking for external validation, you'll be able to find it. But if you have it inside you can do so much more.
Moana: Right. And you can... It never leaves you. I mean whatever skill set you've been able to hone and make yours make it your own - you take that with you. And no one else can take it away from you. You created that. You made that. You, you worked so hard for it, and it's really your own unique voice.
Valerie: Yup. And you'll always have it. And it will always continue to grow too if you're in relationship with it in that kind of way where you're treasuring it, and you're protecting it actually from the outside world in a way.
Moana: Yeah, I would definitely say that. Mm-hmm. Go ahead.
Valerie: Well, my last question in every interview is going to be: is there one thing you'd like to share with other singers out there about how to live their best most authentic vocal life? But I think you've just answered that question.
Moana: Yeah yeah. It's like probably yes. I think it is there.
Valerie: So, yep. Definitely in there. I don't even need to ask that one.
I read an interview where you talked about the difference between singing live versus singing in the studio and how they were so different. And I had a similar experience when I first started recording where I'd been playing clubs for you know five years or something when we did our first record. And when I got in the studio, I just did not know what I was doing. And it sounded different, and I was nervous, and you know I was stilted, and anyway, they're like two different art forms and I'm wondering if you can share with us what your experience in the studio was like and how studio and live, you know, is different.
Moana: Well, I'll tell you a very personal experience that happened to me. Because my sister Elizabeth was the lead singer on the Jets hits You Got It All and Make It Real. And I was, like I had mentioned before, I was kind of her side-kick, her confidant. And I could sing but not as well as her. But the producer had me in the studio and said, "Why don't you take this line. Liz, take a break, and we'll have you come in." And I got in there to do my part, and after I was done, he said, "We're gonna take a listen back." But he forgot to unmute his button or mute it.
Valerie: Oh no.
Moana: They played it back, and I heard him say, "Holy crap, she sounds terrible! She sounds nothing like her sister." And I just stood there kind of like frozen because I was hitting the notes and I couldn't do them as well as her. And they didn't hear me say anything — I just kind of buttoned-up my lip. And they said, "Well, OK. We're going to take a break, and we'll be back." And I went to the bathroom and cried it out, and I was just like, I mean you're eleven twelve years old and you can't really... I couldn't sing the way she could sing.
Valerie: That's devastating! Oh my God!
Moana: Yeah. It was like they didn't even know that they were speaking. And I could hear them. And I walked out and went to the bathroom and cried it out and then I was telling Liz, I go, "I can't sing for anything. I just — I don't have what you have." And she told me, she said, "I've never wanted to sing. I've just been so good at it. I'm too shy. You, here you have the personality, but you want to sing, and I'm the one that doesn't want to sing."
But back in the day you know you're in front of a microphone, and it's so uncomfortable because they're making you do lines over and over and over. Where at least live you just lay it out there, you give it your best shot and then it's gone. It's in the wind. But when you know the producers are saying you've got to do it over because this is gonna be played on radio for 10, 20, 30 years, you want to be able to make it perfect. The pressure to do it is like another monster. You start... it starts weighing on you heavily on the way you "Oh shucks. I'm going to do the line again." And it reminds me of the movie La Bamba when Ritchie Valens is saying, "Well let's do it," you know he's doing his part, and they're like, "Do it again." And you start not making it natural. And you're like OK. "You were on tune, but now you're off timing." Great. You're on timing but know I don't, and I don't feel, you know I don't feel the emotion. You start, uh you know you start having this mental breakdown because you can't do the dumb line.
But anyway I've kind of added two things in one. I took that experience I had with that producer, and I challenged myself that I could do it. And I would listen to every Whitney Houston tape and mimic every single change in her voice - the bends, the twists. And then I became a big Mariah family fan, and I would love her first records I would just sit - Dream love. Like just bend every note and just perfect it. I think I stumbled on one interview with Luther Vandross and they asked him what you know something like you know give us some tips. He goes, "Be a great copycat." And I was like wait - I need to do that. Michael Jackson used to love James Brown, and he learned every James Brown move, and then he became even better. And so I think I took what I had heard that was negative, and I flipped it. And I had a sister who was really my confidant and gave me her belief and just said you can do this. You can just take your time. Learn it. So I wasn't one of those that was born with this natural gift to sing. I had the two left feet in the family, but I had enough potential to know that I could do it if I just focused on it.
And... but yeah. The recording part is always a — it's a monster. It's a whole other thing you have to get over. And you have to kind of be confident enough to, I don't know... You know, you're insecure when you're that young and when they tell you're flat, sharp, you start thinking everything's wrong that you're doing. And you can't get it out and can't record it. You don't give yourself a break, and you know...
Valerie: It's tough.
Moana: Yes.
Valerie: It's it's really tough. And it sounds like... I have so many thoughts all jumbled up waiting to come out in response to this. First of all, what a beautiful thing that you and Elizabeth have this symbiotic relationship where you really support the parts of each other that are stronger than your own and the parts of each other that are weaker than your own gifts.
Moana: It's a blessing. Definitely a blessing.
Valerie: And — and you did... you absolutely.... I mean I've, I've been there. I've been in the studio and had to go in the bathroom and cry it out, and then put my big girl pants back on and go back in and try again with shattered you know self-esteem because of something that had just happened. And I don't feel like I was a natural singer either. My mom was an opera singer, so I always had this incredible voice to sort of contrast myself with and, I just, I didn't even want to be a singer you know, because she was so amazing. So the fact that you went in and started just copying... I think people think that they have to be authentically themselves and never sound like anybody else. But that's not how we learn. I mean that's not how we learn to talk.
Moana: We have to take what we love and embrace it. And it's just like everyone who wants to be like Michael Jordan. They study his moves, they do his layups, they do his shot. They want to go and dunk the ball. And then eventually, because we're individuals, we're always going to have our unique something about us that's unique. So yeah. I mean you imitate, or you embrace who you love and admire until you find your own niche, and then eventually you find your own little voice in it.
Valerie: Yeah. And it's like learning a vocabulary. You copy all these other licks, and you make them your own, and then you put them together in a way that's like putting together your own sentences out of the words that you've learned now.
Moana: Yeah. You almost stand on the shoulders of the people that you love and admire until you can fly off on your own and do it yourself.
Valerie: Perfect. Yes, that's exactly right.
Moana: So here's another question that sort of relates to what you're doing now and actually maybe I should ask you what... So what are you doing now? What's happening with you in your current incarnation as a singer?
Moana: As a singer... You know I've been so occupied with raising six children that when we started getting the opportunity to perform again, it was kind of like, "Wait, what? You guys want to hear the Jets again?" Because we kind of buried it away and it was, I mean it was not an embarrassing thing, but you're always like, "OK, that was so long time ago." But we started getting opportunities to work again as The Jets, and people started celebrating that. So we started working with groups like yourself and other artists and like we were celebrating them like, "That was really a great time." And it actually gave me an outlet because you forget that you're still an authentic person on your own, you're not just a mom that's raising kids or... You lose yourself in that life and forget that you're a person.
So right now, I mean I 've always been a songwriter with my husband, and always we've written gospel R&B, you know country music, reggae music and that was always a nice outlet. But to actually get out and perform again and feel the energy of people my age or during the time that we performed, it's almost like a nice way to say "Wow I did something that was amazing and look it's still bearing fruit." Like, took a little break. But that's what I'm doing now is... I'm still focused on my family and my being a wife and a mother. But I'm enjoying the fact that I am a unique person that kind of picked up this business and made it our own business again. And kind of every time we take that moment to go on the road is kind of like uh like it's a little reward. We run away in a weekend and do this, and we get to meet people and travel places we've been to before, but I've never really embraced and take it in a little better.
Valerie: Well, I'm so glad that you're doing it again because I know that feeling that you're talking about. Your standing on the side of the stage watching these other acts and, and hearing these songs that you haven't heard in years and years and it just... I appreciate it all more than I ever have. And I appreciate how it feels among all these musicians that we're on these shows with too because... It's kind of like a high school reunion where it's, it's decades later, and everybody's... you know. First of all, we're all just glad we're alive, and we've made this far, and isn't it amazing that you know — that these songs are still loved by people. And that is an incredible thing.
I have one more question for you. It's not a deep question at all, but it's an important question. Because I think I want to, I want to give singers on this show a combination of why people have done what they've done, and what they've done, and then how they've done it you know. So, um this is in the how category. How do you keep your performances fresh? How do you keep your performances fresh when you're singing the same material most of the time?
Moana: Boy, that's a good question. I think for me you go to a new place. It's like you're giving them a new experience. If I could keep that in my mind that I'm not in the same place twice — these are new people that haven't heard it, then I think I take a better approach. If I'm like, "I've got to get over this so we can go back to the hotel. I don't feel well," then I'm going to have that kind of a show. But if I can kind of remember you know it's their first time to see us in a long time, or they have never seen us, then it puts me in the right place to project myself the best I can so that they have a moment. And I don't want to waste people's time. I don't want them to come in and say, "Well, that was a waste of my last 15 minutes of my life." I want them to at least say when they had a moment with me as a singer or with my family that we gave them a really good 15 minutes or whatever amount of time. That there's a lot in us, that you know, you give them the best. Cause then you walk away just feel that you can fly home, and then you take your kids out and say hey we had a great trip. Let's go get something to eat, catch a movie. You just feel... I don't think anyone feels any better when they give everything they got.
Valerie: Right. And then you can go back to the laundry and be like I did my work.
Moana: I did my best. Now hand me the colors.
Valerie: I did my best.
Well, I happen to know that, from being in the audience when you do your show, that you project a lot of joy and a lot of love. And I really appreciate what you do, and how you do it. So.. And why you do it. Because I think that is... that comes across. That comes across.
Well, Moana... We could have so many more hour-long conversations. I mean there are so many things to talk about because... We haven't even hit the whole you know, how do you be a mom while you're doing this stuff and that whole thing — which is something that I know people struggle with.
Moana: Yes. That'll be something when you decide to do females that you can say, "We'll do a whole thing on parenting in the business."
Valerie: Yes. Exactly. How do you combine those things to make your own vocal life?
I'm so glad that you are out there doing music again. And I love your voice, again.
Moana: Same with you. Valerie.
Valerie: It's great to hear you even talking here today. So thanks again for doing this with me.